BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

I keep looking at my flock, especially the related birds of multiple generations. I can see the influence of the couple of hens I started with in their daughters, and now in their granddaughters. They are getting closer to what I want, and I'm getting better at tracking development so I can plan the next matings. This year I am selecting for tail shape, and the underlying pelvic structure. Next season I will be selecting for better head shape. Also trap nesting and breeding the steady layers, especially the one that lay best over the winter. I'm also working to find good olive egger cockerels and have saved back two superior ones from this season's hatches.
It does take time to figure out a direction and start working towards it, but once the parameters are in place, things start to happen.

Yes. It is gaining some level of control. That is how I see emphasizing superior individuals. As a control.

I am going to do an outcross that I see as necessary. I will not commit to this outcross until I, if I, can get it going into the right direction. I am essentially going to try to build another flock all together. I will have my main line of two families as my control. I am going to do the best I can with them, while I try to get the project line going in the right direction. A lot of times they dictate what we do or do not do. I do not know a lot, but I have learned that they have say in the matter. LOL.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: My limited understanding is that they are built differently and some lines done lay well. THe latter is what drewme to the non-SQ and those interest me much more.


In the horse breed I was talking about, the breeders were very clever: they outcrossed the native mares to high performance stallions of the time. THere are a number of breeds that are similar and breeding for the same sport, so are allowed , with in the rules, to breed to high performing stallions of other breeds. OVerall all breeds are changing the shape of the horse: lighter bone, faster, more powerful as a riding horse. ALmost all have had to move from a calvary ( think light draft) to a lighter fram ( think influence of arab and thoroughbred) thru careful selection and elimination.

Note: THoroughbreds today are derived from adding arab about 100 years ago, so are related breeds genetically.

My point is to look at how cross breeding similar birds or horses can be effective.

 

[southernmomma]

Quote:
If you want to see the dichotomy of standard versus hatchery bred birds, google a standard bred Dark Cornish. Completely unattractive~ at least to me. Poor things look like they can hardly walk. I have no idea as to their temperament though.

M

 

[Arielle]

Quote:
If you want to see the dichotomy of standard versus hatchery bred birds, google a standard bred Dark Cornish. Completely unattractive~ at least to me. Poor things look like they can hardly walk. I have no idea as to their temperament though.

M
In the discussions I had with kfacres, the birds he has are very mobile, and are not SQ and are not hatchery stock to my knowledge. If they are one or the other , then it is hatchery.

THis was one time I would lean toward hatchery stock and maybe it depends on WHICH hatchery, over SQ stock for production purposes.

 

[Turk Raphael]

My limited understanding is that they are built differently and some lines done lay well. THe latter is what drewme to the non-SQ and those interest me much more.


In the horse breed I was talking about, the breeders were very clever: they outcrossed the native mares to high performance stallions of the time. THere are a number of breeds that are similar and breeding for the same sport, so are allowed , with in the rules, to breed to high performing stallions of other breeds. OVerall all breeds are changing the shape of the horse: lighter bone, faster, more powerful as a riding horse. ALmost all have had to move from a calvary ( think light draft) to a lighter fram ( think influence of arab and thoroughbred) thru careful selection and elimination.

Note: THoroughbreds today are derived from adding arab about 100 years ago, so are related breeds genetically.

My point is to look at how cross breeding similar birds or horses can be effective.

My interest in DCs is meat and I wouldn't care if they never laid an egg for me. I just wonder if the Show Quality DC are as friendly as these ones from the hatchery. I'm not looking for another breed for eggs or exhibition, the Buckeyes will cover that and should likely take care of the meat department as well but I suspect I will have another year needing the DCs for meat until I can get enough Buckeyes 'generated' to be able to sort out the culls for the freezer.

Actually, I think I know just the person to ask...I forgot that the person I'm intending to get the Buckeyes from also breeds DCs...

By the way he has just received the honor of being the first Master Breeder of Buckeyes by the APA. Even more interesting is the fact that he lives in Ohio...birthplace of the breed.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Egg production is important if you want a self sustaining line. I don't expect a super meat producer like the DC to match the RIR, but I do expect a reasonable number of eggs 3 a week. IMO the SQ are no longer good layers because that trait was not kept up or perhaps the lines are too inbred. I just know that Walt LEonard told me they were not good layers.

Keep us posted on the DC. This is another bird I have been interested. Particularly the red laced ones are eye candy. lol

 

[gjensen]

My interest in DCs is meat and I wouldn't care if they never laid an egg for me. I just wonder if the Show Quality DC are as friendly as these ones from the hatchery. I'm not looking for another breed for eggs or exhibition, the Buckeyes will cover that and should likely take care of the meat department as well but I suspect I will have another year needing the DCs for meat until I can get enough Buckeyes 'generated' to be able to sort out the culls for the freezer.

Actually, I think I know just the person to ask...I forgot that the person I'm intending to get the Buckeyes from also breeds DCs...

By the way he has just received the honor of being the first Master Breeder of Buckeyes by the APA. Even more interesting is the fact that he lives in Ohio...birthplace of the breed.

I like the type on the Reese Dark Cornish. My ideal type would be in between the hatchery types and the modern exhibition types. Many breeds have changed a lot over time and these are one of them. Some would argue that where they are today, is an improvement. Maybe they are, but my tastes prefer in between were they are now and were they were. This is not a right or wrong just a preference for a certain type. Some of this is that I like the athletic Oriental breeds.
I do not have any practical experience with them, but I do find them interesting. I have paid attention to them along the way. I imagine if I was to try them, I would be tempted to cross the two types. Blasphemy to some, but I would not be bringing them to a show. I would be eating them, and probably crossing them with NHs here and there. That was a common simple cross for a time. A Cornish male on NH females.

 

[gjensen]

One topic I have not seen discussed here is the topic of utility bantams.

I have toyed wit the idea, along the way, of crossing large fowl with a bantam. The tendency is for the offspring to be intermediate between the two sizes, but the egg size to be 3/4 that of the large fowl.

Sometimes I wonder if this is not a more practical option for a small flock on small acreage. It would be more cost effective. Maybe 75% of the cost of the large fowl.It could be done. You would not be able to show them, but you could still eat them. In the era of backyard poultry keeping, it makes sense. Would be more suitable for the chicken tractors being sold today.

 

[Turk Raphael]

In the discussions I had with kfacres, the birds he has are very mobile, and are not SQ and are not hatchery stock to my knowledge. If they are one or the other , then it is hatchery.

THis was one time I would lean toward hatchery stock and maybe it depends on WHICH hatchery, over SQ stock for production purposes.

I believe for the purpose of providing meat, there is no choice for me...Why pay for show quality birds just to lop off their heads? I feel pretty certain I wouldn't breed them, just buy from the hatchery each year but.......The culls from the Buckeyes should provide plenty of meat, once I get a grip on things.

 

[Turk Raphael]

One topic I have not seen discussed here is the topic of utility bantams.

I have toyed wit the idea, along the way, of crossing large fowl with a bantam. The tendency is for the offspring to be intermediate between the two sizes, but the egg size to be 3/4 that of the large fowl.

Sometimes I wonder if this is not a more practical option for a small flock on small acreage. It would be more cost effective. Maybe 75% of the cost of the large fowl.It could be done. You would not be able to show them, but you could still eat them. In the era of backyard poultry keeping, it makes sense. Would be more suitable for the chicken tractors being sold today.

The guy I'm getting my Buckeyes from (Joe Shumaker) has a line of bantam Buckeyes. They aren't for me but I see where they could work out as you say, for a single person or one with very small area...not to mention showing them.

ETA: If I cook a chicken, I want to make more than one or even two meals from it. We make a fair living but were taught not to waste at times in our lives when things were a bit tighter. I guess the last thing we get from the chicken is some excellent stock and meat scraps for soup or other recipes.