BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[RedRidge]

Back to production...
I have my own personal criteria for minimum weeks to pol. But I'm curious what everyone else's is?
I spent some time with a judge the other day and one of the comments he made had me curious... he commented how much he really liked pullet number XX. She was not my first, or even second, choice, for profile/type for showing. Now keep in mind this judge has experience by far more than I do. I was picking for show not production.

So what did he see that I didn't?
He suggested I pick up his favorite pullet and my favorite pullet and compare. It was interesting... his favorite was laying, mine wasn't. He asked why I would pick a less productive bird? I said... for breeding I choose based on production over type (without production you have nothing), but for show I choose those that are not quite to pol, haven't lost that luster do to producing, and are flashy and typey.
He asked why a bird with more luster should place over a bird who is obviously more productive? I had no answer.
So... for grins and giggles I have entered BOTH pullets this weekend. We'll see what the judges think. I'd like to think production would win out - after all, pretty is as pretty does. But all too often at shows it isn't the most productive but the flashiest who wins. Yes there is an SOP... But about it, it is subject to some extent to each judges interpretation.
I cull for breeding based on pol... maybe I should cull for showing based on that also? We'll see...

 

[DesertChic]

Back to production...
I have my own personal criteria for minimum weeks to pol. But I'm curious what everyone else's is?
I spent some time with a judge the other day and one of the comments he made had me curious... he commented how much he really liked pullet number XX. She was not my first, or even second, choice, for profile/type for showing. Now keep in mind this judge has experience by far more than I do. I was picking for show not production.

So what did he see that I didn't?
He suggested I pick up his favorite pullet and my favorite pullet and compare. It was interesting... his favorite was laying, mine wasn't. He asked why I would pick a less productive bird? I said... for breeding I choose based on production over type (without production you have nothing), but for show I choose those that are not quite to pol, haven't lost that luster do to producing, and are flashy and typey.
He asked why a bird with more luster should place over a bird who is obviously more productive? I had no answer.
So... for grins and giggles I have entered BOTH pullets this weekend. We'll see what the judges think. I'd like to think production would win out - after all, pretty is as pretty does. But all too often at shows it isn't the most productive but the flashiest who wins. Yes there is an SOP... But about it, it is subject to some extent to each judges interpretation.
I cull for breeding based on pol... maybe I should cull for showing based on that also? We'll see...

That is actually really good to hear. I've never shown birds myself, but I've heard a lot of discussion and debate about flash vs. production and which is more important to the show circuit. I heard it stated on another thread, "It's a chicken, not a feather duster."

 

[RedRidge]

Feather duster ROFL

I'll let you know which pullet places higher. In general, having competed dogs, cattle, sheep and rabbits also, I don't put too much stock in one judges opinion regardless if i win or loose. One person's interpretation of the standard on a given day is simply feedback. And it's been my experience that too much politics comes into play when competing livestock - it's the faces you know. The good news about poultry is that no human faces are associated with the judging if everyone is playing fair in the sand box.
Maybe my faith in judging will be restored. ;-) how my two place relative to each other will be telling.

 

[LindaB220]

If sexing is important why go for a sex linked variety? Why not go for an autosexed variety instead?
That's what we did and we've been thrilled with them.

My thought was to get the hybrid vigor into them. But I get your point. What do you have. Crested legbars or such?

Edited: Nevermind, I see following posts about your Rhodebars. I'd like to hear the breed of them. What makes them?

 

[RedRidge]

If sexing is important why go for a sex linked variety? Why not go for an autosexed variety instead?

That's what we did and we've been thrilled with them.

My thought was to get the hybrid vigor into them.  But I get your point.  What do you have.  Crested legbars or such?

Edited:  Nevermind, I see following posts about your Rhodebars.  I'd like to hear the breed of them.  What makes them?

They are a purebred (as opposed to hybrid) so breed truly autosexed with each generation. They were originally created from Brussbars and RIR. A few were imported to the US about 3 years ago. Most were bred incorrectly and many now do not have what it takes to be 100% autosexable. The ones that are genetically correct have terrible type - although I've found their production to be pretty good.
So I've been using my standard bred RIR to improve them. I'm pretty pleased with how they are coming along - but much of that is because they had/have such a long way to go.

 

[Leahs Mom]

What do y'all practice as far as retiring laying hens. Do you do it at a particular year mark (for example, all layers go at 2 yo, 3 yo, 4 yo, etc.)? Or do you observe what production you're getting on an individual basis?

 

[RedRidge]

I used to cull at 3 years before I got my current breeds. Now I cull when laying slows considerably... as in lots. With some that is not until 8 years.
They don't lay as heavy, but lay for more years.

 

[hellbender]

My 'cut-off, literally', no matter what is at age 4 for hens and at age three if they are tested and appear not to be laying. The three year termination does not include birds in molt. I have kept some special cocks 'til 6 yrs but we have pretty well stopped that now and do them in at age 4, right down the line.



EDIT: We no longer caponize any of our pure Australorps or NNs, so many of the cockerels are terminated at 6 to 7 months.

Of course we still caponize but have gone to Dark Cornish and my younger son is working on a Buckeye/NN project that we all have great hopes for. We do not like chicken meat that is young in age...same as we detest the taste of veal, but that's just us. Our interest there is the F-1 generation and all birds will be caponized or poulardized with the few exceptions that might be used to cross with Dark Cornish cocks who's get will be neutered.

 

[1zooman12]

Hi Linda,
We have not chatted in some time. As per your penchant to obtain a chest freezer, Sue and I had one years ago. Later we bought two upright freezers. Why 2? We had two boys who always ate as though they were a cross between Sumo wrestlers and active duty infantrymen! Sue jokingly opined that either one of them could stand in front of an open refrigerator, inhale and empty the dang thing! Not too great an exaggeration as we were constantly hauling frozen foods from the deep freezer to replenish the 'fridge. While the chest freezers are somewhat cheaper than the counterpart upright, we soon learned that one had to practically unload the chest freezer in order to see what lay below out of sight. A pain in the what-sit! Since the upright has a series of shelves one could see the entire inventory at a glance. You make your own choice now that you know the pitfall of a chesty.
I wish you well,
Neal, the Zooman

 

[Leahs Mom]

Thanks @RedRidge and @hellbender

Sherry - I'm guessing you're referring to the heritage birds going longer than the hatchery birds?