BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

Think growth curve. It is not a straight line. You can move the peak around, depending on what you want to accomplish. They will end up in the same place on 22% as they would on 28%. The 28% group will start out of the gate faster, but the 22% will catch up (if all is else is equal). There is still the genetic potential and limitations to deal with.
We see the faster early growth and we think that in the end they will be better. It is better, if you are going to eat them soon. Depends on what you are trying to accomplish and why.

 

[hellbender]

Think growth curve. It is not a straight line. You can move the peak around, depending on what you want to accomplish. They will end up in the same place on 22% as they would on 28%. The 28% group will start out of the gate faster, but the 22% will catch up (if all is else is equal). There is still the genetic potential and limitations to deal with.
We see the faster early growth and we think that in the end they will be better. It is better, if you are going to eat them soon. Depends on what you are trying to accomplish and why.

 

[Arielle]

Think growth curve. It is not a straight line. You can move the peak around, depending on what you want to accomplish. They will end up in the same place on 22% as they would on 28%. The 28% group will start out of the gate faster, but the 22% will catch up (if all is else is equal). There is still the genetic potential and limitations to deal with.
We see the faster early growth and we think that in the end they will be better. It is better, if you are going to eat them soon. Depends on what you are trying to accomplish and why.

THis begs the question-- there must be a minimum protein that works?? Not trying to be argumentatvie , but trying to get my head around the concept.

Perhaps there is value in a big Jersey giant that takes a long time to grow out; perhaps that breed was designed to cope with a low protein diet--?

 

[hellbender]

THis begs the question-- there must be a minimum protein that works?? Not trying to be argumentatvie , but trying to get my head around the concept.

Perhaps there is value in a big Jersey giant that takes a long time to grow out; perhaps that breed was designed to cope with a low protein diet--?

In my opinion...feeding large breeds like the Jersey Giant a a diet over 16% (High Quality Protein) is likely to create serious problems in their skeletal growth.

 

[Arielle]

THanks Hellbender-- more to stew about . . .

 

[gjensen]

THis begs the question-- there must be a minimum protein that works?? Not trying to be argumentatvie , but trying to get my head around the concept.

Perhaps there is value in a big Jersey giant that takes a long time to grow out; perhaps that breed was designed to cope with a low protein diet--?

Of course there would be. You could say that the standard chick starter at 18% would be a minimum. Or you might say 20% is. Those numbers did not just pop in someone's head, and their is science to support it. I could not see starting them at any less, and prefer a little more. How much more? That is more debatable and the varying opinions will depend on anecdotal evidence, and perceptions built by what we hear.

Look, if I am going to grow broilers with standard breeds, on grass, you can bet that I am going to push them. Pullets, I would consider an ideal that is different. To replace a general flock, I might vary a bit to.
There is a point where they can only use so much up, and the rest is wasted. You find that place faster in confinement than you will on range. How you raise them does matter in these considerations.

What you are raising matters to. They do not all grow out the same. It seams that the big framed Oriental breeds are better grown out a little slower. Malay are more prone to leg problems for example. Slow, strong, and sure, seams to be better for some.

Another consideration is that selection plays a part. Selecting for faster growth on 30% feed, is different than selecting for faster growth on 20% feed. One bird may better utilize the lower protein feed than another concerning early growth. There are a number of traits that come into play that we cannot see.

Big boned and framed birds tend to and should grow out slower than shorter birds in length and height. Jersey Giants were not selected for early growth rates, but final size. Compare Minorca with Leghorns. They should not mature in the same time frame. You do not want them to.

I am not being argumentative either. I am just sharing a perspective and some observations I have made. Anyone can take it for what it is worth. I am certain that many will disagree.

A chicken's heart rate is near 275 bpm. They have high metabolisms. What they need more than anything is energy.

 

[BGMatt]

In my opinion...feeding large breeds like the Jersey Giant a a diet over 16% (High Quality Protein) is likely to create serious problems in their skeletal growth.

Other factors are more important than just protein. Calcium/Phosphorous are very important too (and technically much like large breed dogs, the ratio there and not just the levels is super important). Off the top of my head you want around a 1.2:1 ratio

 

[hellbender]

Other factors are more important than just protein. Calcium/Phosphorous are very important too (and technically much like large breed dogs, the ratio there and not just the levels is super important). Off the top of my head you want around a 1.2:1 ratio

I concur and admit that I was remiss in failing to point out what you post.

 

[BGMatt]

I concur and admit that I was remiss in failing to point out what you post.

All good, protein levels are discussed far more frequently, because it's simpler. There's so much that goes into nutrition it boggles the mind and is easy to go cross-eyed and get lost in it. We're so far ahead of the what they had to put up with in the past it's almost alarming.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Thank you for the examples--- it seemed to me that the different breeds deveoped out of different circumstances and what is right for one breed may not work for another breed. Just hard to know without a mentor to guide, or fall back on trial and error.


In general I do have concerns for a breed tht needs very high protein. Meaning how can that be provided in a homesteading environment? Is it the result of a thriving and well to do homestead that has extra high protein sources available as "leftovers" or "waste" to feed the chicks? The result of a multipurpose farm with other protein sources available?

Hellbender got me thinking of all the animal "waste" that is recycled thru his birds and I do wonder if some breeds perhaps like the buckeye was developed with those resources to support the growth. I can only wonder as I don't know of any documentation.