BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

Here's an extra 2 cents and sort of a question...doesn't the capon get bigger than young birds? If so, the food expended on getting the bird to an older age would be cost effective in that respect~more feed, more money, but yields more meat and~supposedly, just as tender as a young bird? Don't know because I've never done it nor eaten a capon, but it seems much like cutting a bull calf and for much the same reasons. Sure, you could just eat that calf when it was really young and avoid all that cutting and time to grow it out, but you'd also have less meat than growing it out to butchering size and that meat would have a different taste/quality.

Say, if you fed two birds~one caponed, the other not~for 8 months and the capon turned out bigger than the uncut male, with more fat throughout the meat, on the same amount of food, wouldn't this be an efficient use of that time and money? Eating young birds only saves money but it yields less meat, so if one wanted a bigger bird but one that put on more meat/fat during the time it was held over, wouldn't that be as broad as it is long? It would also have the benefit of not having to be penned separately from the flock due to mating/fighting issues, so it wouldn't require more money in that regard either.

To me, saying it's more efficient cost wise to eat a young bird doesn't make much sense...small money, small bird. More feed/money, bigger bird. In the end, same amount of money spent per pound of meat, I would imagine, but the quality of meat(more fat within the meat fibers?) would be different/better/?.

In a few of the books I have there are photos of regular and caponized cockerels of the same age and breed standing next to each other and the capons are much, much bigger. The difference was in pounds, not ounces, so I think there's plenty of merit to your assumption based on the literature. I hope to be able to speak from personal experience at some point in the future.
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You and I both know the price fools pay for certain things is no test or proof of its worth.
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No dead chicken, unless it's gold plated and one could melt down that gold and cash it in for $75, is worth $80. No matter how much they want to say it is...it's just chicken.

Much like the Bresse...just free ranged chicken finished on buttermilk. Like that's some mysterious practice that no one else has ever done nor can do in the world.
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It sounds much like the Emperor's new clothes. I'm not denying it could possibly be a tasty bird, as my own birds are more tasty than any I've had elsewhere for various reasons...but they still ain't worth $80. It's chicken.

If there isn't considerable gains made, I doubt I'd go through the trouble.....unless, of course, I had fools lined up with $80 in their pockets, just waiting for their chicken with the new clothes.
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But then, that's me...I can up all my birds anyway, so no point in growing one designed for broiling in the oven.

Anything is worth only as much as someone is will to pay for it.
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I recently saw someone on Facebook advertising an Ayam Cemani pullet for sale for $800. Now I know this is a rare breed and totally black inside and out, but my mind immediately screamed "$800 for a chicken? Are you crazy?" But.....someone may actually pay that. Me? I think I can get a whole lot of poultry....or many other things...for that $800.
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Please do! It would be interesting to see two birds of the same hatch raised on the same feed, but one being a capon, and seeing if they actually have bigger gains that are notable and appreciable.
 
Please do! It would be interesting to see two birds of the same hatch raised on the same feed, but one being a capon, and seeing if they actually have bigger gains that are notable and appreciable.

If I ever master the procedure I will most certainly do this, complete with charts, graphs and photos. I love reading and hearing about things but nothing beats hands-on experience.
 
Anything is worth only as much as someone is will to pay for it.
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I recently saw someone on Facebook advertising an Ayam Cemani pullet for sale for $800. Now I know this is a rare breed and totally black inside and out, but my mind immediately screamed "$800 for a chicken? Are you crazy?" But.....someone may actually pay that. Me? I think I can get a whole lot of poultry....or many other things...for that $800.
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Talked to a breeder who paid $5K for a trio of his chosen breed, so it happens...just doesn't happen in my world. Someone else on this forum paid $1500 to have their hen spayed...and she didn't live through the surgery. Lots of fools and their money out there, soon to be parted.
 
If I ever master the procedure I will most certainly do this, complete with charts, graphs and photos. I love reading and hearing about things but nothing beats hands-on experience.

I agree! Until you try it, it's all theory, no matter what other folks have done. It's all different in one's own chicken yard.
 
While I agree that there are a lot of "emperor's new chicken" breeds floating around, the thing you have to stop and consider, say you have feed store specials, on the one hand, and something a little off the beaten path on the other. You can get maybe 10 or 20 bucks for the feed store birds, if they are pullets. If you have something a little more out of the norm, you can sell them for more money, you can even sell roosters, that otherwise you would be lucky to give away. They will eat the same feed and the building you keep them in will cost the same, the only difference is the price of initial breeding stock. Don't be quick to dismiss a $75 chicken. If you sell a few, you can make more money with less chickens, starting with birds that are worth more. If you can't sell them they will taste the same as the ones that you can barely sell at cost. Sometimes, much better. ($75 is cheap by the way.)


(Sorry, I see now we were talking about $80 capons, that were dead. Yup, that's right up there with those black meated things.)
 
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My reason for wanting to eat older birds(capon or not) ,as well as for wanting to free range is nutrient density. I just can't imagine that an older bird has not had time to accumulate more in its flesh and bones than a younger bird. Since I make stock from every chicken I cook this may be more important to me then it is to others.
 
My reason for wanting to eat older birds(capon or not) ,as well as for wanting to free range is nutrient density. I just can't imagine that an older bird has not had time to accumulate more in its flesh and bones than a younger bird. Since I make stock from every chicken I cook this may be more important to me then it is to others.

Your reasoning seems good to me but I also like the flavor.
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I will share a story of my life with chickens and the evolution of my breeding strategy, for self sustaining pasture based chickens raised in house, with no bought chicks.

So, like most of us, I was born. That is where this story begins. My Grandma was old, she only had one chicken. The chicken house had fallen into disrepair, mom and dad didn't like chicken poop, Grandma couldn't take care of things anymore, so that was that. I remember asking grandma to hold me up to the window so I could see "chick-hen". She died in a snowstorm when I was like five, (chick-hen, not Granny). I still picked Grandma's brain, of her life with chickens, all the different breeds, outlined in a tattered hatchery catalog. And so it was, through many bleak years, Mom and Dad pointing out all of the things that would go wrong if we got chickens, hordes of ravaging foxes, mite infestations of biblical proportions, and the multimillion dollar feed bill. On through the bleak years, Grandma passed. Then a bright spot. I got married. To a girl who appreciated agricultural endeavors, no less. She became my great enabler.

One of the first things I did was build a barn. Then a home. (Still working on that one). Order some chicks. Instant happiness. And so it went, rattling through the years. Order a different breed every year, or heck, an assortment. By the time the dark egger craze hit, we had graduated through several incubators, up to a giant cabinet incubator and a hatcher. We were doing hundreds of chicks, fancy dark egg layers, some meat birds, selling day olds up through point of lay pullets, good times. Then the kids came. No more time for hundreds of chicks. We quit hatching. Just bought an assortment, ate the roosters, kept the layers, sell them off and have another batch coming on.

By that time, there seemed to be a lot of people raising chicks. I was no longer interested in "ordinary" chickens. I became interested in the various, colorful gamefowl breeds. They had cool, obscure names, and there socially unacceptable heritage made them somewhat rare, but not have eggs shipped through customs rare. Just some little play pretties off to the side. At first, I was pretty turned off by the oriental games. Then through a twist of fate, I ended up with one. I was instantly taken with their raw ugliness, grace, and because they lack natural fear responses found in most chickens, they are just the doggone friendliest things on earth. I mean take a rooster for a ride to the landfill with you friendly. How cool is it to take your pullet fishing.

So, integrating that into a pasture based meat and egg production system was the next logical step. There are no incubators or brooders in use now. I have hens that can do a far better job. They can take better care of them than I can, and I am tractoring around small, easy to move pens, with smaller numbers of chicks, and in some cases letting hens free range their broods. I raise a few orientals on the first brood and then on the second and third broods I am raisng replacement layers in small batches, so hopefully I will have seamless egg production. I have butchered some of the games and it is apparent that the Cornish owes it's meat heritage to the Asil, they are some thick breasted little things. My Ga Noi are interesting me, I have enough now that I should be able to do some experimental crossing, on dual purpose heritage breeds, I have some BLR Wyandottes and some buff Orpingtons, from one of the accidental breedings I had, I am expecting near Cornish X performance on a hen raised pastured chick. My Asils are small, but I am planning on crossing some of them on some Dorkings, ought to get a plump breasted little bird from that cross. I know that I am definitely onto something with the tight feathered big breasted oriental crossed on the heritage types, they are getting a real kick from the hybrid vigor and both parent lines are easily self replicated. So now you know my system and how it came about.
 

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