BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Beer can]

My reasoning for wanting to hatch a 100 is two breeds, 50 each, keep some of the best 'looking' pullets to up my breeding numbers, try to sell the rest if no interest I'll process them young like gjension does, small tender little fryers for the grill, to save on feed and space. That leaves 50 cockerels for capons if they hatch 50/50 on sex , I'll probably have some casualties being I've never attempted it. Process the smaller ones early, might leave 30 for growing out. I can handle that with a large mobile hoop coop and run and no need for nest boxes. My plans are not just to preserve and perfect these two breeds but hopefully eliminate feeding my family store bought poultry

 

[bnjrob]

We've talked a little bit here on this thread (where many of us are somewhat utilitarian in focus) about the fact that SOME of what's in the SOP (for older breeds) is there for a production reason (e.g., associated with healthy body structure, etc.). @gjensen , I think you have discussed this in terms of working on the whole bird, etc., in terms of working toward SOP for your birds while preserving production aspects.

So I was wondering - aside from cosmetics, what would be the purpose for selecting for straight combs, and culling cockerels with crooked or otherwise poorly or unevenly formed combs? I have a medical background - I found myself wondering if it could uncommonly be a marker for skull defects or genetically linked to some other potentially serious issue.

I'm just curious...

- Ant Farm

I haven't found any correlation between that kind of appearance trait and any health or utility purpose in our birds.

Our birds are supposed to have long, wide backs - which correlate well with having adequate room for internal organs as well as being able to lay without so much risk of prolapsed vents from straining to get an egg out. The long wide back also provides the structure to have some meat on their bones for eating. The old timers also harped on making sure that they had big shanks and mentioned that too many Javas were being bred with finer bone structure. Smaller bones would make it more difficult for these big birds to carry their weight around without risking injury.

Having proper wing positioning would be good for allowing the birds to do some flying to get up and down from surfaces and to evade predators.

 

[Beekissed]

We've talked a little bit here on this thread (where many of us are somewhat utilitarian in focus) about the fact that SOME of what's in the SOP (for older breeds) is there for a production reason (e.g., associated with healthy body structure, etc.). @gjensen , I think you have discussed this in terms of working on the whole bird, etc., in terms of working toward SOP for your birds while preserving production aspects.

So I was wondering - aside from cosmetics, what would be the purpose for selecting for straight combs, and culling cockerels with crooked or otherwise poorly or unevenly formed combs? I have a medical background - I found myself wondering if it could uncommonly be a marker for skull defects or genetically linked to some other potentially serious issue.

I'm just curious...

- Ant Farm

Me too. I'm also finding that the birds that most closely resemble the SOP for my breed or another are also those that are worthless layers....but they are oh, so beautiful in form. If function follows form, why then do these hens with perfect forms not have the proper function?

My best layers down through the years are always those squirrel tail hatchery BAs...if their form is a bad one for their function, they are completely and blissfully unaware.

 

[Our Roost]

Well Mr.gjensen, I have a rare breed and I know exactly the poor qualities you speak of when starting with a troubled breed. In fact you gave me some personal guidance on this subject matter. I didn't have much to work with and the birds were lacking a fresh blood line to help rejuvenate some deterioration from overbreeding. I opted to outcross using a parent bird that contained the same traits used in the making of the breed. I also kept the breed pure hatching out as many as possible from what I started with. Of all the birds that hatched, only a select few were worthy to keep for breeding this coming spring. I gained nothing this year and wish I had more to work with. Some died which made matters even worse. In case anyone cares, I am talking about the Belgium Malines breed. In my case, it has been a real struggle to make good things happen with them as yet but I haven't lost the battle just yet. All I am stating is that small numbers take longer to bring results on a larger scale. Yes, I have been prompted and also read articles promoting breeding in larger numbers for more selection and better results from choosing from those numbers. That doesn't make it impossible to breed using smaller numbers! If you are patient and have a good eye for birds as well as some good stats, you can achieve a better bird.

 

[Beekissed]

Never heard of that breed....have you got any pics of your birds? I'd love to see them!

 

[DesertChic]

We've talked a little bit here on this thread (where many of us are somewhat utilitarian in focus) about the fact that SOME of what's in the SOP (for older breeds) is there for a production reason (e.g., associated with healthy body structure, etc.). @gjensen , I think you have discussed this in terms of working on the whole bird, etc., in terms of working toward SOP for your birds while preserving production aspects.

So I was wondering - aside from cosmetics, what would be the purpose for selecting for straight combs, and culling cockerels with crooked or otherwise poorly or unevenly formed combs? I have a medical background - I found myself wondering if it could uncommonly be a marker for skull defects or genetically linked to some other potentially serious issue.

I'm just curious...

- Ant Farm

Great question! And good timing as I was just wondering this myself after handling my two Bielelfelder cockerels today. My biggest boy, Hansel, is closest to the German SOP guidelines a BYC friend provided, but it's my "defective" favorite Biel cockerel with the sprig on his comb and a little bit of white feathering in his tail that has the much meatier breast and thighs. As I was petting him tonight I kept thinking, "This is the one I'd want to breed for my meat purposes, not Hansel." I wouldn't trade Hansel for the world as he's an amazing rooster that keeps all of my separate flocks united and at peace, but my Bosch is still my favorite and with good reason.

And this is why I doubt I would ever show birds. I understand that the SOP was developed for very good reasons, but a bird that ideally meats its breed's SOP requirements doesn't necessarily meet mine.

And with NNs.....it's just too much fun to see all those different feather patterns and colors show up in each generation. With the exception of pure white NNs, which I find to be supremely elegant, I prefer more variety in their coloring instead of just one solid color. Definitely not SOP.

 

[hellbender]

Belgium Malines. Here is one example. 12 pound birds are not uncommon.

 

[DesertChic]

Belgium Malines. Here is one example. 12 pound birds are not uncommon.

Whoa! He's huge! What an interesting looking bird!

 

[hellbender]

Whoa! He's huge! What an interesting looking bird!

Imagine what a holiday dinner he would headline...and if he were a capon, the word epicurean comes to mind! lol

 

[NanaKat]

A search for Malines results in many threads on the Belgian Malines here on BYC. I've been interested in them for several years.
BackYard Chickens › BYC Forum › Chicken Breeds › General breed discussions & FAQ › Belgian Malines (Mechels)