BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[hellbender]

It's what country folks used to do every year...it just makes sense. Let chickens sit their own eggs in the spring so they can raise up replacement layers and extra roosters for winter soup meat. Keep the best hens from each year's hatch, breed those, cull the rest each fall with the extra roosters, do it all again in the spring. No need for lights when you let nature take its course.

Agreed. We have never used lights.

 

[Beer can]

I used a light on a bunch of hatchery rir yrs ago. They laid like crazy for a couple of yrs, then were worthless.
I use no lights now and had EE and b leghorns started laying in the middle of winter.

I agree, let nature run it's course. And good point, never thought of that, how would we know if they are good winter layers, or just artificial layers.

 

[bnjrob]

I am doing the exact same thing this year. I am tired of buying eggs from the store during molt so I am timing my hatches to avoid the spring and fall molt. I also like the pullet eggs better than the larger eggs so that is not a problem with me.

You can also oil your eggs for long term storage when you have a surplus, to help make sure that you have plenty year round. I've used oiled eggs as old as 9 months old with good results. Can't separate them to make things like meringue or divinity, but for normal use, they work just fine.

 

[AnthNDacula]

As I've said before I've only had basic yard birds over the last 50 years, but I've had lots of experience saving eggs to get thru the lean months. I've heard and read many different methods for storing eggs ranging from oiling them, to submerging them in waterglass, to burying them in moist sand. The fact is that the egg is the perfect storable food for about 6 months (of course that can range drastically from a few weeks to almost a year depending on egg quality and technique used. And unless you candle your eggs I'd recommend cracking them into a bowl before plopping them into your cake batter... just in case.

A while back one of those magazines like Mother Earth News or Hobby Farmer... I can't remember which.... did an informal study of all of these methods as well as several others. I'll bet you could find the article if you googled "how to store eggs". Across the board they found that refrigerated, freshly collected, unwashed but clean eggs, stored with the pointed end down lasted at least 6 months in nearly perfect condition. None of the other methods came close with any regularity. Of course you can expect a loss in flavor, texture, etc., but they are still better than what you get at the grocery store eggs. All the alternate techniques, including waterglass, yielded nearly flavorless eggs if they survived 6 months.

In the mid 90s I took an egg candling course with the Georgia Department of Agriculture and was certified as a licensed candler. The Department of Ag agreed precisely with the info above. In that class I learned that commercial eggs can be cold stored up to six months before they are candled and go to the grocery store. The expiration date is 30 days from candling regardless of how old the egg actually is. Eggs truly are amazing things.

Each day as I collect my eggs I do some sorting. Perfectly clean eggs go into long term storage in my garage fridge. Slightly soiled eggs get washed if they need it and go into a bowl on the counter top or into my kitchen fridge for short term use. Really filthy eggs are perfectly fine if washed, but I'm lazy and just toss them to one of my pigs.

So to make a long story short... save your prettiest eggs exactly as they come from the hen in the fridge. You should have more than enough to carry you thru until the girls start laying again. If not... cull and start with fresh hens.

 

[gjensen]

I'm curious about something. For those breeding for egg production....if you light up your flocks in the winter time, how do you know which birds will naturally lay more in the winter months as opposed to those who will only lay more in the winter months due to artificial stimulants like added light? Or do you just breed for those that will lay more in the winter months WITH added lighting?

How does that work, exactly?

I am going to use your post to respond to more points than your own.

First, I do not think anyone here is truly breeding for egg production. I have seen (read) no evidence of this on this thread. Culling poor layers is not breeding for improvement on this point. That is merely attempting at maintaining a status quo. Breeding for improvement is an actual and intelligent process. Who here is actually breeding for improved numbers? Heck, here numbers are disregarded all together, ironically,

We like the idea of it, but no one is doing it.

The proof of winter laying is overstated. It runs both ways. You cannot prove either, without the other. In other words, if I run lights . . . would they lay well without them? If I do not run lights, will they achieve the text book numbers that everyone claims but does not have actually? In one we cannot prove their potential, and in the other we cannot see what their worst is.

The good thing about both is that who is better at one, is generally better at the other. Some are better low light layers, but this is unrelated to the extended laying cycles of the best layers. The best laying pullets, usually end up the best winter layers. With the best layers, your question is irrelevant. Both would be best at both. I will say again, the best winter layers are the best laying pullets, generally speaking.

There was some mention of breeds being better at this or that. To see this intelligently, we should disregard breed, and discuss strains of breeds. There is variety among breeds, strains of breeds, lines, flocks, and individuals. Concerning our experiences, we should say I had this experience with this strain of this breed. Then we are speaking objectively, accurately, and honestly.

The tips on storing eggs is interesting and helpful. However, should a breeder of poultry need to store eggs? I never have. We should have our pullets laying almost full sized eggs before our hens molt. A breeder has more than one generation of birds on their yard. The first year pullets are the best winter layers. They are laying through the hen's molt and through the winter. They will not be laying at the rate that they will in the spring, but they will be laying (managed well).

Concerning lights in general, it is a personal choice. I have gone both ways. Lights are tools that can be helpful. The tools used, or the management options are up to the manager. The real point is that we are consistent and they we manage them well consistently. The best winter layers, are the best laying pullets.
We are in 2016, and not in 1816. We have options that were not available then, and we have birds that are better than then. We have made progress on both points. Now, there is nothing wrong with excluding lights. I do now. I have in the last few years. I do not need them. I do not use lights because I do not need to use lights. That is not to say that I never will again. I always reserve the right to change my mind.

There are good reasons why I might again. Old cocks tend to be less than adequate early in the season, but the fertility is functionally adequate later in the season. If we are concerned with vigor, health, and longevity, we will use these old cocks that have been proven. We want to get as much out of them as we can. There is one that I am considering turning the lights on for this year. It will depend on what my schedule for them ends up being, but I want to get out of him what I can. Every egg that I can get from him this year will be valuable. I do not know how many more seasons that I can use him practically. My point in sharing this is that lights are a management option at our disposal. We do not want to become so rigid in our ideology that we exclude good and viable options.

On or off does not matter. What matters is that we are consistent. The best winter layers are the best laying pullets.

I imagine all of this could vary from region to region. My experiences here would be different than the UP of Michigan. As dark, cold, and long as those winters are . . . I might add a light bulb to their houses. Here, the pullets lay well enough even on the coldest and darkest days. Big and sudden drops in temperature may affect them temporarily. Any change can do that at any time. The birds do not like change.

 

[Beekissed]

You're right, of course. You're always right when it comes to breeding, chickens and anything else we discuss here. I shouldn't have ventured an opinion, even one based on my own experience because I'm woefully ignorant when it comes to breeding. You are very helpful to make that clear each and every time I post on any thread on BYC. I'll try to remember to keep my mouth shut on such things and go back to dabbling in my back yard.

 

[DesertChic]

I am going to use your post to respond to more points than your own.

First, I do not think anyone here is truly breeding for egg production. I have seen (read) no evidence of this on this thread. Culling poor layers is not breeding for improvement on this point. That is merely attempting at maintaining a status quo. Breeding for improvement is an actual and intelligent process. Who here is actually breeding for improved numbers? Heck, here numbers are disregarded all together, ironically,

We like the idea of it, but no one is doing it.

Actually, I'm doing this...or more accurately, will be doing this with my egg laying flock. I keep data on what each chicken lays, including when she started, how frequently she lays, egg weights, egg color, molting patterns and broodiness. Since I've only been keeping chickens for one year and my first chicken reach POL March 30th of this year, I still have a few months to go before I've collected a full year of data on any of my girls. And since I was so intrigued by what I read in "The Call of the Hen", I also handle my girls regularly as described in the book to "test" his technique through direct observation.

I'm also keeping data on the cockerels I'm keeping, noting egg laying habits only of the mothers for the chicks I've hatched at this point as I don't have data on grandmothers' laying habits since my flock is so young. That will come over time.

 

[Beekissed]

I'm doing this too...and am on my third generation of selecting for this trait. Currently monitoring the winter laying performance of the second generation and next year I'll be doing the same with the third generation. So on and so forth.

 

[gjensen]

You're right, of course. You're always right when it comes to breeding, chickens and anything else we discuss here. I shouldn't have ventured an opinion, even one based on my own experience because I'm woefully ignorant when it comes to breeding. You are very helpful to make that clear each and every time I post on any thread on BYC. I'll try to remember to keep my mouth shut on such things and go back to dabbling in my back yard.

That was not my intent. I only shared my view, as you shared your own. I respond to your posts because they are often the most intelligent. I challenge you for the same reason. If I had not thought anything of what you contribute, I would not have taken any notice at all.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

I am going to use your post to respond to more points than your own.

First, I do not think anyone here is truly breeding for egg production. I have seen (read) no evidence of this on this thread. Culling poor layers is not breeding for improvement on this point. That is merely attempting at maintaining a status quo. Breeding for improvement is an actual and intelligent process. Who here is actually breeding for improved numbers? Heck, here numbers are disregarded all together, ironically,

We like the idea of it, but no one is doing it.

The proof of winter laying is overstated. It runs both ways. You cannot prove either, without the other. In other words, if I run lights . . . would they lay well without them? If I do not run lights, will they achieve the text book numbers that everyone claims but does not have actually? In one we cannot prove their potential, and in the other we cannot see what their worst is.

The good thing about both is that who is better at one, is generally better at the other. Some are better low light layers, but this is unrelated to the extended laying cycles of the best layers. The best laying pullets, usually end up the best winter layers. With the best layers, your question is irrelevant. Both would be best at both. I will say again, the best winter layers are the best laying pullets, generally speaking.

There was some mention of breeds being better at this or that. To see this intelligently, we should disregard breed, and discuss strains of breeds. There is variety among breeds, strains of breeds, lines, flocks, and individuals. Concerning our experiences, we should say I had this experience with this strain of this breed. Then we are speaking objectively, accurately, and honestly.

The tips on storing eggs is interesting and helpful. However, should a breeder of poultry need to store eggs? I never have. We should have our pullets laying almost full sized eggs before our hens molt. A breeder has more than one generation of birds on their yard. The first year pullets are the best winter layers. They are laying through the hen's molt and through the winter. They will not be laying at the rate that they will in the spring, but they will be laying (managed well).

Concerning lights in general, it is a personal choice. I have gone both ways. Lights are tools that can be helpful. The tools used, or the management options are up to the manager. The real point is that we are consistent and they we manage them well consistently. The best winter layers, are the best laying pullets.
We are in 2016, and not in 1816. We have options that were not available then, and we have birds that are better than then. We have made progress on both points. Now, there is nothing wrong with excluding lights. I do now. I have in the last few years. I do not need them. I do not use lights because I do not need to use lights. That is not to say that I never will again. I always reserve the right to change my mind.

There are good reasons why I might again. Old cocks tend to be less than adequate early in the season, but the fertility is functionally adequate later in the season. If we are concerned with vigor, health, and longevity, we will use these old cocks that have been proven. We want to get as much out of them as we can. There is one that I am considering turning the lights on for this year. It will depend on what my schedule for them ends up being, but I want to get out of him what I can. Every egg that I can get from him this year will be valuable. I do not know how many more seasons that I can use him practically. My point in sharing this is that lights are a management option at our disposal. We do not want to become so rigid in our ideology that we exclude good and viable options.

On or off does not matter. What matters is that we are consistent. The best winter layers are the best laying pullets.

I imagine all of this could vary from region to region. My experiences here would be different than the UP of Michigan. As dark, cold, and long as those winters are . . . I might add a light bulb to their houses. Here, the pullets lay well enough even on the coldest and darkest days. Big and sudden drops in temperature may affect them temporarily. Any change can do that at any time. The birds do not like change.

Hello, I've been trying to catch up before posting anything, so far I have made it to page 190 (Jan 2015!). I've started skipping ahead reading the newest posts because there are so many catching up is difficult.
I plan on breeding for egg production, I'm interested in large, leghorn-white eggshell white eggs, but not from single combed breeds (e.g. Mediterranean breeds) and as soon as I catch up I hope it's OK if I ask a lot of questions. Lots of invaluable information on this thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge and experience- I'm really enjoying reading the posts.