BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[bmvf]

Regarding protein percentages in custom made diets versus forages; Last year I made some balage (wet hay that is wrapped to preserve) from some of my pasture in May. The pasture which consisted of ryegrass, orchardgrass and some dandelion was 12 inches when I cut it. The test results showed 24% protein. This year that stand has some clover in it which can hit 25%-31% protein. So 27% protein isn't too uncommon in a natural, heritage style environment. Add in a factor such as harvesting an an earlier stag and the protein could be higher. Sure some protein tests in hay can be below 10%, but that hay is usually older when cut, doesn't have clover and often consists of Timothy grass which isn't the highest for protein. BTW, last year I cut an old stand of alfalfa which had mostly chickweed. That tested 24% protein too! Add in the bugs, worms, etc and I'm sure protein could be very high.

In regards to soil biology. As a non-organic farmer who uses fertilizers, glyphosate, etc. Plant diversity goes a long way. Different plants can work off of each other such as grasses and nitrogen fixing legumes (clover, alfalfa, peas). Different root building plants such as yellow clover and tillage radish can dig deep while ryegrass can build many small fibrous roots that feed soil life. Then letting your grass grow taller can help increase soil organic matter, keep the soil from drying out quicker, aid in water absorption and help prolong the life of the grass. However, protein and digestible energy is lower when grass is harvested when older. For those reasons and more, I prefer not to graze or harvest older forage with my cows but prefer a younger more digestible forage.

 

[hellbender]

Regarding protein percentages in custom made diets versus forages; Last year I made some balage (wet hay that is wrapped to preserve) from some of my pasture in May. The pasture which consisted of ryegrass, orchardgrass and some dandelion was 12 inches when I cut it. The test results showed 24% protein. This year that stand has some clover in it which can hit 25%-31% protein. So 27% protein isn't too uncommon in a natural, heritage style environment. Add in a factor such as harvesting an an earlier stag and the protein could be higher. Sure some protein tests in hay can be below 10%, but that hay is usually older when cut, doesn't have clover and often consists of Timothy grass which isn't the highest for protein. BTW, last year I cut an old stand of alfalfa which had mostly chickweed. That tested 24% protein too! Add in the bugs, worms, etc and I'm sure protein could be very high.

In regards to soil biology. As a non-organic farmer who uses fertilizers, glyphosate, etc. Plant diversity goes a long way. Different plants can work off of each other such as grasses and nitrogen fixing legumes (clover, alfalfa, peas). Different root building plants such as yellow clover and tillage radish can dig deep while ryegrass can build many small fibrous roots that feed soil life. Then letting your grass grow taller can help increase soil organic matter, keep the soil from drying out quicker, aid in water absorption and help prolong the life of the grass. However, protein and digestible energy is lower when grass is harvested when older. For those reasons and more, I prefer not to graze or harvest older forage with my cows but prefer a younger more digestible forage.

Better than good, this is an EXCELLENT post.

 

[BGMatt]

Regarding protein percentages in custom made diets versus forages; Last year I made some balage (wet hay that is wrapped to preserve) from some of my pasture in May. The pasture which consisted of ryegrass, orchardgrass and some dandelion was 12 inches when I cut it. The test results showed 24% protein. This year that stand has some clover in it which can hit 25%-31% protein. So 27% protein isn't too uncommon in a natural, heritage style environment. Add in a factor such as harvesting an an earlier stag and the protein could be higher. Sure some protein tests in hay can be below 10%, but that hay is usually older when cut, doesn't have clover and often consists of Timothy grass which isn't the highest for protein. BTW, last year I cut an old stand of alfalfa which had mostly chickweed. That tested 24% protein too! Add in the bugs, worms, etc and I'm sure protein could be very high.

In regards to soil biology. As a non-organic farmer who uses fertilizers, glyphosate, etc. Plant diversity goes a long way. Different plants can work off of each other such as grasses and nitrogen fixing legumes (clover, alfalfa, peas). Different root building plants such as yellow clover and tillage radish can dig deep while ryegrass can build many small fibrous roots that feed soil life. Then letting your grass grow taller can help increase soil organic matter, keep the soil from drying out quicker, aid in water absorption and help prolong the life of the grass. However, protein and digestible energy is lower when grass is harvested when older. For those reasons and more, I prefer not to graze or harvest older forage with my cows but prefer a younger more digestible forage.

Thank you so much for posting this. Great info.

 

[pigsflyacres]

bmvf, that was great information. Its easy to get hay tested. We do it every year. The feed companies are eager for your business because they want you to use one of their products to balance your hay for the horse. There are also independent companies testing hay and silage.

Darn hard to get horse hay. Everything is produced for cows and shipment to Japan. Horses don't do well on hay produced for cows. We've gone to Teff hay for the horses which is cut late and has a lower than I'd like protein content. Most of the ponies eat it with the same enthusiasm that I'd eat a plain rice cake. Better than Laminitis.

Because I'm always looking for low sugar, moderate protein hay, I'd forgotten just how high the protein content of mixed pasture could be. Very encouraging.

 

[gjensen]

Regarding protein percentages in custom made diets versus forages; Last year I made some balage (wet hay that is wrapped to preserve) from some of my pasture in May. The pasture which consisted of ryegrass, orchardgrass and some dandelion was 12 inches when I cut it. The test results showed 24% protein. This year that stand has some clover in it which can hit 25%-31% protein. So 27% protein isn't too uncommon in a natural, heritage style environment. Add in a factor such as harvesting an an earlier stag and the protein could be higher. Sure some protein tests in hay can be below 10%, but that hay is usually older when cut, doesn't have clover and often consists of Timothy grass which isn't the highest for protein. BTW, last year I cut an old stand of alfalfa which had mostly chickweed. That tested 24% protein too! Add in the bugs, worms, etc and I'm sure protein could be very high.

In regards to soil biology. As a non-organic farmer who uses fertilizers, glyphosate, etc. Plant diversity goes a long way. Different plants can work off of each other such as grasses and nitrogen fixing legumes (clover, alfalfa, peas). Different root building plants such as yellow clover and tillage radish can dig deep while ryegrass can build many small fibrous roots that feed soil life. Then letting your grass grow taller can help increase soil organic matter, keep the soil from drying out quicker, aid in water absorption and help prolong the life of the grass. However, protein and digestible energy is lower when grass is harvested when older. For those reasons and more, I prefer not to graze or harvest older forage with my cows but prefer a younger more digestible forage.

I tried to explain this to some fodder enthusiasts. They did not get it but the point was that well managed forage is as nutritious. The may point being what you said here. That it be young and diverse. Many "weeds" are high in protein. I prefer these weeds over the coarse grasses.
What this "environment" lacks the most is energy.

 

[LindaB220]

FYI: I just PM'd a Moderator requesting permission to show the video that will be taken of our farm and the 'clinic' which will be taking place over a three day period. We are going to try to get everything squeezed into 20 minutes yet making sure there is enough detail that those who want to learn the 'procedure' will get enough detail to decide if it's for them or not.

RON

Woohoo!!!!

 

[bmvf]

I tried to explain this to some fodder enthusiasts. They did not get it but the point was that well managed forage is as nutritious. The may point being what you said here. That it be young and diverse. Many "weeds" are high in protein. I prefer these weeds over the coarse grasses.
What this "environment" lacks the most is energy.

I agree 100%, this environment (pasture/grass) lacks energy. For the most part, I hate growing corn. It costs a lot to grow, is herbicide dependent, and life on the farm seems to revolve around how the corn is doing. It also is very dependent on nitrogen and water, if you don't get enough rain in a 3 week period your in trouble. My soil dries out quickly and the Appalachian mountain range to my north curves some storms away from me. My problem is that I need energy and corn silage to supplement the protein rich pasture. I'm looking at forage sorghum this year in an attempt to grow something that is less water and nitrogen dependent but forage sorghum isn't as high energy as corn silage.

I also agree with the weeds. They need to be palatable and not to invasive. Crab grass is an example of a grass that is palatable but quickly takes over. When it dies when it gets cool it will leave gaps in pasture which reduces yield. There are species of crabgrass for sale as a summer annual. Chickweed is something that cows will eat but I don't want a pasture full of chickweed because when it dies in the warmth it will leave gaps like the crabgrass does in fall. Now we have two weeds seeding themselves, tag teaming as they take over a pasture stand. Dandelion can serve some medicinal purposes and I don't mind having it in my pastures. I've had cows eat the tops of red root which is fine, but soon the red root is going to head and they can have 300,000 seeds on one plant. I don't want that!

Forage isn't free (like stated before) but proper management can help you save money and/or increase production. I will agree that most 'nutritionists' or feed salesman need to sell you something, but for the most part I don't worry too much about them. They know that I can find someone else if I think they're full of crap. Maybe I'm lucky because I live in the area I do which has a lot of farms and feed stores.

 

[southernmomma]

I agree 100%, this environment (pasture/grass) lacks energy.  For the most part, I hate growing corn.  It costs a lot to grow, is herbicide dependent, and life on the farm seems to revolve around how the corn is doing.  It also is very dependent on nitrogen and water, if you don't get enough rain in a 3 week period your in trouble.  My soil dries out quickly and the Appalachian mountain range to my north curves some storms away from me.  My problem is that I need energy and corn silage to supplement the protein rich pasture.  I'm looking at forage sorghum this year in an attempt to grow something that is less water and nitrogen dependent but forage sorghum isn't as high energy as corn silage.

I also agree with the weeds.  They need to be palatable and not to invasive.  Crab grass is an example of a grass that is palatable but quickly takes over.  When it dies when it gets cool it will leave gaps in pasture which reduces yield.  There are species of crabgrass for sale as a summer annual.  Chickweed is something that cows will eat but I don't want a pasture full of chickweed because when it dies in the warmth it will leave gaps like the crabgrass does in fall.  Now we have two weeds seeding themselves, tag teaming as they take over a pasture stand.  Dandelion can serve some medicinal purposes and I don't mind having it in my pastures.  I've had cows eat the tops of red root which is fine, but soon the red root is going to head and they can have 300,000 seeds on one plant.  I don't want that!

Forage isn't free (like stated before) but proper management can help you save money and/or increase production.  I will agree that most 'nutritionists' or feed salesman need to sell you something, but for the most part I don't worry too much about them.  They know that I can find someone else if I think they're full of crap.  Maybe I'm lucky because I live in the area I do which has a lot of farms and feed stores.

http://www.bar.gov.ph/digest-home/d...oultry-raisers-best-alternative-to-corn-feeds

Interesting
M

 

[gjensen]

I agree 100%, this environment (pasture/grass) lacks energy. For the most part, I hate growing corn. It costs a lot to grow, is herbicide dependent, and life on the farm seems to revolve around how the corn is doing. It also is very dependent on nitrogen and water, if you don't get enough rain in a 3 week period your in trouble. My soil dries out quickly and the Appalachian mountain range to my north curves some storms away from me. My problem is that I need energy and corn silage to supplement the protein rich pasture. I'm looking at forage sorghum this year in an attempt to grow something that is less water and nitrogen dependent but forage sorghum isn't as high energy as corn silage.

I also agree with the weeds. They need to be palatable and not to invasive. Crab grass is an example of a grass that is palatable but quickly takes over. When it dies when it gets cool it will leave gaps in pasture which reduces yield. There are species of crabgrass for sale as a summer annual. Chickweed is something that cows will eat but I don't want a pasture full of chickweed because when it dies in the warmth it will leave gaps like the crabgrass does in fall. Now we have two weeds seeding themselves, tag teaming as they take over a pasture stand. Dandelion can serve some medicinal purposes and I don't mind having it in my pastures. I've had cows eat the tops of red root which is fine, but soon the red root is going to head and they can have 300,000 seeds on one plant. I don't want that!

Forage isn't free (like stated before) but proper management can help you save money and/or increase production. I will agree that most 'nutritionists' or feed salesman need to sell you something, but for the most part I don't worry too much about them. They know that I can find someone else if I think they're full of crap. Maybe I'm lucky because I live in the area I do which has a lot of farms and feed stores.

With the new improved varieties, I expect sorghum to become an even larger player. I like lower input options.

 

[Arielle]

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/

I stumbled on this blog sometime ago, maybe a year, and I like that this farm is working outside the box. Because of its blog set up detailed information is tricky to find, but plenty of good nuggets. He anwers every post that has a question, and he will answer emails . . . .

This farm produces pork from pasture raised hogs. THe hogs have been carefully bred and selected for the pasture environment; a lot of attention goes into providing pumpkin patches, seeding root vegetables in the pasture and collecting chicken eggs as extra protein for the piglets. ANd the house is poured concrete requiring little firewood for heating. ANd a long term project to construct a licensed slaughtering facility. Definitely a non-traditional farming design.

My point is that his pastures are not the typical grasses but also fortified with dozens of nontraditional plants . . .kale, rape, millets and more as he is in a cool area.