BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

It is great to have you here!

Oddly, two of the Breeds that have been the most productive for me are not form the United States. I wonder what happened?

If Jwhip is duplicating the cross that he did last year, I think most would be happy with the results. If you pushed them, you could get them processed with good weights at 12wks. I saw 14wks last spring and did not push them.

Just regular 20% chick starter and throwing them some corn, mine were ready at 14wks. If I had raised them confined in a house and run, and fed them 24% -28% from hatch, I think that I could have got 12wks out of them. I am speaking of 3.5 or 3.75lbs dressed clean. No legs. LOL.

The pullets were laying decent sized eggs @ 20-22wks.

This performance is wat made the NH popular in it's time.

 

[catdaddyfro]

If Jwhip is duplicating the cross that he did last year, I think most would be happy with the results. If you pushed them, you could get them processed with good weights at 12wks. I saw 14wks last spring and did not push them.

Just regular 20% chick starter and throwing them some corn, mine were ready at 14wks. If I had raised them confined in a house and run, and fed them 24% -28% from hatch, I think that I could have got 12wks out of them. I am speaking of 3.5 or 3.75lbs dressed clean. No legs. LOL.

The pullets were laying decent sized eggs @ 20-22wks.

This performance is wat made the NH popular in it's time.

And this early laying season here, those girls(XW NHs) have those big ol red floppy combs spit shined and laying prettily too right along beside my sex links and pro reds. that move Jeremy did with the cross strain surely proved to "nic" its like heterosis but not too.

Jeff

 

[gjensen]

And this early laying season here, those girls(XW NHs) have those big ol red floppy combs spit shined and laying prettily too right along beside my sex links and pro reds. that move Jeremy did with the cross strain surely proved to "nic" its like heterosis but not too.

Jeff

Did you take any pictures of the carcasses? The proportions were pretty good.

 

[3riverschick]

The physicality of the bird in terms of feathers has little to do with production - So I guess what I don't get is why do we judge birds on it. It makes no sense. Chickens are livestock - not dogs or cats.

http://www.albc-usa.org/documents/ALBCchicken_assessment-1.pdf
Chapter 1 Selecting for Meat Qualities and Rate of Growth

"3.Wide feathers – Birds with wide feathers grow at a faster rate than birds with narrow feathers. This has largely to due with the fact that narrow feathers allow more body heat to escape and thus less of the food consumed goes into growth. Birds with narrow feathers can be identified at an early age, as they are apt to be slow to grow back feathers for the first 6 weeks of life."

Best Regards,
Karen

 

[catdaddyfro]

Did you take any pictures of the carcasses? The proportions were pretty good.

Yes they were George I was right on with the same wieghts as you were too I did not get pics though you know me and the camera either I forget or its not good timing as usual. I'm gonna try to do better this year on the pics and the documentation this is all starting to get serious up in around here(the farm). LOL

Jeff

 

[gjensen]

Economics would incdicate that a pullet that lays as early as possible and lay as many eggs as possible in until she is tapped out is the most eficient commercial egg producer. Ina controled climate with food and water provided in such a way as to maximize production.

After years of thinking this was the only model, I have started looking in a different direction. Based on what is sustainable and what is economical for a very small oepration?

I read a number of Joel Saladins books, and found the Sugar MTn Farm web site using a set up much diferent than commercial hog houses: forage raised hogs. These two sources helped me to see there is another way. THe forages need to work in balance with other feed sources and those factors influence which breeds will thrive on that type of management.

Saladin promotes pasture raising for a number of valid reasons, and also provides a custom mix of grain to the cornishX. THe hogs are on pasture that is highly integrated with a variety of plants and shrubs and small trees with added whey and brewers grains. Both operations depent on heavy equipment.

THe latter is what I think of before we could till the land. ANd my land is NOT tillable. Good New England soil that grows rocks!! I hav noo heavy equipment, but the basics and a chainsaw.

This leads me away from the cornish cross to the old heritage meat birds or project meat birds. A bit slower growing but better in tune with the lower production of the land. But hopefully still economally doable. A nearly organic product at a lower price than I can buy.

I have been mulling over land preparation witht he help of KF acres-- just tossing ideas around and he was my sounding board. We need to selectivly cut most of the trees, remove the leave cover and get seed into the duff area. Hmm, not sure duff can support grass seeds. Might need the sheept o eat down an area until the soil levels are exposed due to over stocking rates.

Love to hear input.

You can take the economics of the thing in a couple directions. There is something to be said for low in put, and reliable output. Many of the old breeds are suitable for raising in that manner.

When you are considering the practicality of the project, take advantage of what you have. The birds like and benefit from foraging through the leaf litter. It is better if you have both.

Just always be on guard from doing too much. It is easy to spend as much or more on improvements as you would have on feed. Labor has a high value to.

I also believe that lighter breeds are better for low input management. They have less body mass to maintain.

With feed costs the way they are, these things are always worth considering. It will not take much to drive feed costs up.

 

[catdaddyfro]

http://www.albc-usa.org/documents/ALBCchicken_assessment-1.pdf
Chapter 1 Selecting for Meat Qualities and Rate of Growth

"3.Wide feathers – Birds with wide feathers grow at a faster rate than birds with narrow feathers. This has largely to due with the fact that narrow feathers allow more body heat to escape and thus less of the food consumed goes into growth. Birds with narrow feathers can be identified at an early age, as they are apt to be slow to grow back feathers for the first 6 weeks of life."
Best Regards,
Karen

Good point and info, Karen I agree.

Originally Posted by call ducks

The physicality of the bird in terms of feathers has little to do with production - So I guess what I don't get is why do we judge birds on it. It makes no sense. Chickens are livestock - not dogs or cats.

of course they do Colin my Pro-reds and Red sexlink feathers are crap compared to the real RIR feathers same on the BR from hatcheries compared to the non hatchery birds.

Jeff

 

[gjensen]

Yes they were George I was right on with the same wieghts as you were too I did not get pics though you know me and the camera either I forget or its not good timing as usual. I'm gonna try to do better this year on the pics and the documentation this is all starting to get serious up in around here(the farm). LOL

Jeff

I was impressed and it takes a bit to impress me.

I think more people should try them for these reasons.

 

[gjensen]

Good point and info, Karen I agree.

Originally Posted by call ducks

The physicality of the bird in terms of feathers has little to do with production - So I guess what I don't get is why do we judge birds on it. It makes no sense. Chickens are livestock - not dogs or cats.

of course they do Colin my Pro-reds and Red sexlink feathers are crap compared to the real RIR feathers same on the BR from hatcheries compared to the non hatchery birds.

Jeff

The reason feather does matter, is that we are not raising our birds in a controlled setting. I kind of like the entire bird.

 

[3riverschick]

23 Functions of Feathers
http://askabiologist.asu.edu/content/23-functions-feathers

American Poultry Advocate,
Volume 18 September 1910 , Page 624
Feather of the Barred Pullet.
A Portrayal of the Defects of the Barred Plymouth Rock Pullet Feather in a Way That Will Delight Every Breeder of This Variety. The Proper Length, Width, and Barring of the Feather, Together With the Proper Spacing and Width of Bars Are Fully Explained. By S. T. DIVINIA, St. Joseph, Mo. http://tinyurl.com/k4dvqc2

The American Breeds of Poultry: Their Origin, History of ...
books.google.com/books?id=JNxIAAAAIAAJ
Frank L. Platt - 1921 Pages 81 and 82
"Utility of the plumage. Plumage has a very practical aspect. It keeps the body warm and dry. Nature has not given better protection to any animal than she has given to birds in the form of plumage. These light feathers which a chicken carries on its body are an effective insulator of body temperature. One of the difficulties of the incubator manufacturers has been to build a box that would keep out cold as effectively as does the plumage of a hen setting on eggs. They have built double walls and padded them in between. The average man who builds a poultry house that his hens may have a decent place in which to live, is usually tempted to build the house tight that the hens may be warm. He fails to learn the lesson from the bird which he sees sitting on the twig of a tree, singing and happy, as he looks out of the house on Christmas morning across two feet of snow. That little bird has been out all night and the wind has blown and it has been cold, but it did not freeze or die, for is it not there on the twig, chirp and happy, singing its Christmas carol? Fowls, like birds, breathe all the way through their lungs into four pairs of air sacs (which are the bellows-like portion of their respiratory system) affording the very best possible opportunity for the oxygen of fresh air to combine with the blood and be carried to all parts of the body. One thousand pounds of chickens breathe from 2 to 2l/2 times as much air as the same weight of cattle, horses or men, according to F. H. King. Birds have a higher temperature. Therefore, do not shut the poultry up in a close hen house; consider the nature of the bird and its coat of plumage. This overcoat is of nature's best make, effective as an insulator of body temperature, a wonderfully woven fabric of beautiful color. Let us learn more about it. The secondary feather. Did you ever examine a feather on the under side? There is a little secondary feather at the base, called the after-shaft. The great feathers of the wing and tail are an exception. This after-shaft of the body plumage serves as "the underclothes." Dr. P. T. Woods has suggested that when hens are housed in open front poultry houses the after-shaft assumes larger proportions than where the birds are cooped in tight quarters. The downy part of the feather helps to keep the bird warm, the soft fluff holding more air than were the feather material closely knit into a smooth surface all the way down to the skin. The smooth surface, however, is better to shed rain and makes the better outer protection; it also permits birds in flight to pass through the air with the least resistance."