BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[call ducks]

Quote: What is the lifetime of the layers that have a shortened life??
It really would depend on the strain. For example ISA is working on a chicken that will produce 500 eggs economically over it's life span ( this strain would have a higher life span than others).

Also with proper management life span can be just as long - underfeeding hens is better than over feeding.

 

[enola]

That doesn't seem like a huge accomplishment....my leghorns probably lay somewhere near 300 eggs in their first laying cycle. Then they molt and in their second cycle I am sure they lay at least 180 more eggs before they molt again. So I am sure that before their third birthday they have laid nearly 500 eggs.

Edited to ad that my hens are under light to extend daylight hours.

 

[call ducks]

That doesn't seem like a huge accomplishment....my leghorns probably lay somewhere near 300 eggs in their first laying cycle. Then they molt and in their second cycle I am sure they lay at least 180 more eggs before they molt again. So I am sure that before their third birthday they have laid nearly 500 eggs.

Edited to ad that my hens are under light to extend daylight hours.

While 500 for you is not a big success it is for industry - 500 eggs/hen means better efficiency, it also means that not as many pullets need to be reared for 4-5 months that is when they are consuming a lot of feed but not producing anything. Also when ISA is breeding for 500 eggs/hen they monitor things like feed intake, egg shell quality ( uniformity is a must) and such things like that. Also production hens have a cycle that that is about 1.5 - two ish years.

 

[Arielle]

Economics would incdicate that a pullet that lays as early as possible and lay as many eggs as possible in until she is tapped out is the most eficient commercial egg producer. Ina controled climate with food and water provided in such a way as to maximize production.

After years of thinking this was the only model, I have started looking in a different direction. Based on what is sustainable and what is economical for a very small oepration?

I read a number of Joel Saladins books, and found the Sugar MTn Farm web site using a set up much diferent than commercial hog houses: forage raised hogs. These two sources helped me to see there is another way. THe forages need to work in balance with other feed sources and those factors influence which breeds will thrive on that type of management.

Saladin promotes pasture raising for a number of valid reasons, and also provides a custom mix of grain to the cornishX. THe hogs are on pasture that is highly integrated with a variety of plants and shrubs and small trees with added whey and brewers grains. Both operations depent on heavy equipment.

THe latter is what I think of before we could till the land. ANd my land is NOT tillable. Good New England soil that grows rocks!! I hav noo heavy equipment, but the basics and a chainsaw.

This leads me away from the cornish cross to the old heritage meat birds or project meat birds. A bit slower growing but better in tune with the lower production of the land. But hopefully still economally doable. A nearly organic product at a lower price than I can buy.

I have been mulling over land preparation witht he help of KF acres-- just tossing ideas around and he was my sounding board. We need to selectivly cut most of the trees, remove the leave cover and get seed into the duff area. Hmm, not sure duff can support grass seeds. Might need the sheept o eat down an area until the soil levels are exposed due to over stocking rates.

Love to hear input.

 

[call ducks]

Economics would incdicate that a pullet that lays as early as possible and lay as many eggs as possible in until she is tapped out is the most eficient commercial egg producer. Ina controled climate with food and water provided in such a way as to maximize production.

After years of thinking this was the only model, I have started looking in a different direction. Based on what is sustainable and what is economical for a very small oepration?

I read a number of Joel Saladins books, and found the Sugar MTn Farm web site using a set up much diferent than commercial hog houses: forage raised hogs. These two sources helped me to see there is another way. THe forages need to work in balance with other feed sources and those factors influence which breeds will thrive on that type of management.

Saladin promotes pasture raising for a number of valid reasons, and also provides a custom mix of grain to the cornishX. THe hogs are on pasture that is highly integrated with a variety of plants and shrubs and small trees with added whey and brewers grains. Both operations depent on heavy equipment.

THe latter is what I think of before we could till the land. ANd my land is NOT tillable. Good New England soil that grows rocks!! I hav noo heavy equipment, but the basics and a chainsaw.

This leads me away from the cornish cross to the old heritage meat birds or project meat birds. A bit slower growing but better in tune with the lower production of the land. But hopefully still economally doable. A nearly organic product at a lower price than I can buy.

I have been mulling over land preparation witht he help of KF acres-- just tossing ideas around and he was my sounding board. We need to selectivly cut most of the trees, remove the leave cover and get seed into the duff area. Hmm, not sure duff can support grass seeds. Might need the sheept o eat down an area until the soil levels are exposed due to over stocking rates.

Love to hear input.

Ohh Joel Saladin - I think he is a nut personally. JMO.

I don't know about the old heritage meat birds... Most meat birds that were used long ago were crosses not pure bred's as everyone ( or a lot of the people here) seem to belive.

I can tell you for small operation is almost certainly going to be cheaper to buy your chicks from a hatchery - and to me sustainable means not costing a lot.

I think your best bet would be goat's a sheep combo - goats really can eat anything that sheep can't and sheep can eat the other grasses that goats don't.

 

[BGMatt]

Ohh Joel Saladin - I think he is a nut personally. JMO.

I don't know about the old heritage meat birds... Most meat birds that were used long ago were crosses not pure bred's as everyone ( or a lot of the people here) seem to belive.

I can tell you for small operation is almost certainly going to be cheaper to buy your chicks from a hatchery - and to me sustainable means not costing a lot.

I think your best bet would be goat's a sheep combo - goats really can eat anything that sheep can't and sheep can eat the other grasses that goats don't.

Depends on how far you go back. A lot of the early meat breeds were more focused on roasters, replacements for turkeys. Those were breeds such as the Jersey Giant and Brahma. As economics and market trends changed then they started using hybrids to meet demand. As far as my knowledge extends the last "breed" developed for meat exclusively was the Delaware before the hybrids finally took over. I'd imagine smaller farmers often made crosses but it wasn't until around 1930's and 40's when hybrids started taking over the commercial market. All about efficiency. They have done some staggering things with selective breeding, it's really quite amazing when you look at it. Cobb Broilers are an outstanding testament to breeding and what is possible with the genetic knowledge of today.

We disagree on the definition of sustainable, my view is it has to be more self-sustaining, as in able to reproduce itself. If you use table scraps and cheap grains and pasture (and are ok with the resulting slower growth) "heritage" meat isn't horrible.

Have been reading this thread all morning, very glad to see it. I'm one of the SOP diehards, but I hate it when breeders don't pay attention to production qualities. Looking forward to some great discussion in here.

 

[chickkrzi]

OK I'm in as well. I a firm believer that each animal should have a purpose around the house. Chickens should produced enough egg for sale to pay there food, bedding material and other supplies. And we have done a far job so far but there's always room for improvement. I have one RIR hen right now that gives me 4-5 jumbo eggs (71-74 gr) with a RIR roo now and will set eggs in incubator this weekend. So with leg band on my hens and on weekends checking during the day who's laying what size of eggs was easy. As well as finding who laying and who's not. The problem for most working folks would be finding you best egg producers. Hanging around the nesting box on weekends just not going to tell you what you need to know.
Any ideals on that would be most helpful.

 

[ronott1]

OK I'm in as well. I a firm believer that each animal should have a purpose around the house. Chickens should produced enough egg for sale to pay there food, bedding material and other supplies. And we have done a far job so far but there's always room for improvement. I have one RIR hen right now that gives me 4-5 jumbo eggs (71-74 gr) with a RIR roo now and will set eggs in incubator this weekend. So with leg band on my hens and on weekends checking during the day who's laying what size of eggs was easy. As well as finding who laying and who's not. The problem for most working folks would be finding you best egg producers. Hanging around the nesting box on weekends just not going to tell you what you need to know.
Any ideals on that would be most helpful.

It is great to have you here!

Oddly, two of the Breeds that have been the most productive for me are not form the United States. I wonder what happened?

 

[chickkrzi]

It is great to have you here!


Oddly, two of the Breeds that have been the most productive for me are not form the United States. I wonder what happened?

Just wondering ... what breed was you talking about?

 

[ronott1]

Just wondering ... what breed was you talking about?

White American Bresse and Pita Pinta.