BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

Thank you all for this info. It is very helpful.

At what age do your birds start to crow? I never thought of that as an indicator.
If you were raising birds, for meat then you would start them differently from the egg layers? For egg flocks, I see chick starter at 16%.
But Agway also makes a MeatBird from used from hatch to slaughter which is 22%.

So for layers, they get fed 16% from hatch till they go on breeder/layer 18% and then on just layer? 20%.
But I was told by an experienced breeder that Sussex need more and I should be feeding them no less than 20% at any age.
Then I read on the ALBC PDF about meat assessment that feeding meat birds 16% can stunt their growth by 50%. That was
an eye opener!

Which makes sense to me because that's what I did with the Sussex chicks this year ( raised them like my
friends who were raising dual purpose egg flocks). I figured I would raise them like a dual purpose laying flock as that's basically
what they would be doing for us here. But now I realize that even as a dual purpose bird, the Sussex is first and formost a meat bird.
And I am now seeing the effects of denying that heritage in my chick development program.

I was saddened to see they
grew smaller as opposed to their genetic potential from both parents.

Now I am wondering if I caused this by raising them on 16%.
I did change later when I was told 20% but at least 2 critical growh periods had passed by then.

. The saving grace to all this is
that now I will raise their children differently with Meatbird from hatch to slaughter.

. I should see that size potential manifest
itself.
Thanks,
Karen

The crowing is just a reference point. The males are more tender before the hormones toughen them up.

The Sussex is a dual purpouse bird with an emphasis on meat. There are quality Sussex laying strains in England. They do not have the surplus of large hatcheries like we do, so there are still remnants of old utility lines. Some that have birds that still show good breed character.

A light (weight) and shallow Sussex is not a Sussex. They might have the name, but that is all. The breed type is what defines them. We tend to identify birds by color instead. Even in England the exhibition strains are more defined by feather than anything.

The width and length still give them good capacity for laying.

Sometimes I wish we could show birds without the feathers. LOL. Feather helps define type, but it can get to an extreme.

The Sussex is a fascinating breed with a solid history.

 

[ronott1]

I might be pickier than some. I like tender. LOL.

It is ideal to process them before they get to the stag stage. Heck of a lot cheaper to. Nothing wrong with processing the later culls though. I find the hens better when they are old. I do not like old males.

This is a reason I would like to learn to do capons. I would like to have a few for later in the year. Never had one.

I agree with you about the age and tenderness. I am perfectly fine with a three pound fryer. The monsters at the store have given us an expectation of what a chicken should be that is not what they were in the days before them.

 

[ronott1]

The french finish Breese with oats and wine and milk ...

I do know that sussex were finished with grains of some sort and milk

Thank you for this information.

I feed the whole flock spoiled milk and whey. Layers and meat birds. Only un-pasturized products though.

I gave two Bresse cockerels milk soaked Kamut in the morning and then flock raiser in the evening for two weeks. They were very nice!

I feed the gruel for 8 to 10 days then fast them for 2 days before slaughter. I try to slaughter them at about 10 months of age. Some would think that to be quite old but caponization allows the added maturity gives a very rich and flavorful taste and tenderness that would not be had in a like bird that had been kept intact.

Thank you!

I will keep this in my notes.

 

[gjensen]

I agree with you about the age and tenderness. I am perfectly fine with a three pound fryer. The monsters at the store have given us an expectation of what a chicken should be that is not what they were in the days before them.

And I was never really disagreeing. Just speaking of a preference is all.

A lot of what influences my preference is economics. I like to be rid of a qty of males at a point. I can get some to fryer stage without spending steak like money on them and I like their flavor better than store bought. There is a point where the economy of it really accelerates downhill.
What I have done in the past is separate a qty early, and put them on a fattening diet. Then a little later do the same. I only end up growing out a third of them to maturity.
I have found advantages and disadvantages to this.

Now I have to figure out how I will do it with the Catalanas. They are a little different than what I had grown accustomed to.

 

[ronott1]

And I was never really disagreeing. Just speaking of a preference is all.

A lot of what influences my preference is economics. I like to be rid of a qty of males at a point. I can get some to fryer stage without spending steak like money on them and I like their flavor better than store bought. There is a point where the economy of it really accelerates downhill.
What I have done in the past is separate a qty early, and put them on a fattening diet. Then a little later do the same. I only end up growing out a third of them to maturity.
I have found advantages and disadvantages to this.

Now I have to figure out how I will do it with the Catalanas. They are a little different than what I had grown accustomed to.

I did not think you were disagreeing.

I like the fattening idea.

I am not allowed Roosters(The ordinance for my City says Roosters not Cock birds) so I have to process them when they start crowing loudly. If they are really small it might take two to make a meal too!

 

[Manningjw]

EDIT: This thread is as much for the SOP folks as anyone. I think they need to realize (many do) that production was the primary reason for having chickens 'back in the day'.

Production most certainly was the most important thing to chickens back in the day. It is sad to see a wonderful bird like the Orpington or Australorp that were known for laying 300+ eggs a year now only putting out 160 a year. That is just poor breeding considering their main function was egg production.

 

[hcammack]

While we are on the topic of giving birds a good start feed wise a farm I worked on gave their broilers a good start with chopped liver and crushed hard boiled eggs for the first two weeks.

 

[gjensen]

Production most certainly was the most important thing to chickens back in the day. It is sad to see a wonderful bird like the Orpington or Australorp that were known for laying 300+ eggs a year now only putting out 160 a year. That is just poor breeding considering their main function was egg production.

Just understand that the 300 numbers were the exception and on the extreme end of the spectrum. Personally on these large dual purpose breeds, I would be excited about 220 if the eggs were big eggs. 160 eggs is bad enough, and if they are medium sized eggs from a big bird . . .well that bugs me.

 

[BGMatt]

Production most certainly was the most important thing to chickens back in the day.  It is sad to see a wonderful bird like the Orpington or Australorp that were known for laying 300+ eggs a year now only putting out 160 a year.  That is just poor breeding considering their main function was egg production. 

Where are you getting those numbers from? I highly doubt them and would like to see a source. Birds producing north of 200 eggs were very rare until the 1910-1920's, even the Mediterranean breeds were topping out in the 240-250 range most the time. And all the old literature I've read has said that Those breeds were considered dual purpose with good meat qualities especially the Orpington.

 

[hellbender]

I did not think you were disagreeing.

I like the fattening idea.

I am not allowed Roosters(The ordinance for my City says Roosters not Cock birds) so I have to process them when they start crowing loudly. If they are really small it might take two to make a meal too!

I caponize my cockerels at three or four weeks and they don't crow...They're just hanging with their gal pals...talkin' girl talk...lol

EDIT: If they aint crowing, they shouldn't create any problems, huh? The hardest part about it is getting someone to show you how and do a little 'practice' on a few already deceased volunteers!