BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[3riverschick]

Ok and thank both Jason and yourself! He sounds like a great son! My Owen called the other day.

He wants me to send his Airsoft gear when he gets situated in Calif. this Fall. He is USCG and

my gamer, smile. Gamers rule the world! Yes, he shoots real guns too. Is especially good with a rifle.

Semper Paratus !! Hubby Bob is finishing up plans for the hutches and all excited to build them

for me. yeah! Did the research on huch size and the area I had planned for them is just right

for 5 hutches and a grow out pen. Now I need to learn how to sex baby rabbits.

Have a wonderful time, look forward to your returning!

Best,

Karen

 

[Arielle]

Ron , leave the internet behind for a while . . . soak up the sun, put your toes in the sand, and relax---- no worries.

 

[hellbender]

Ok and thank both Jason and yourself! He sounds like a great son! My Owen called the other day.

He wants me to send his Airsoft gear when he gets situated in Calif. this Fall. He is USCG and

my gamer, smile. Gamers rule the world! Yes, he shoots real guns too. Is especially good with a rifle.

Semper Paratus !! Hubby Bob is finishing up plans for the hutches and all excited to build them

for me. yeah! Did the research on huch size and the area I had planned for them is just right

for 5 hutches and a grow out pen. Now I need to learn how to sex baby rabbits.

Have a wonderful time, look forward to your returning!

Best,

Karen

It's far easier 'sexing' rabbits than chicks...once they get a bit of size and hair-over some...

 

[gjensen]

Thank you

This is my first time with Dom's. I am finding they are AWESOME. They hold the title of "first American breed". Thought that was really neat but bought them because they go broody, close to as much as a bantam. I want to go that route. Instead of incubators. Not sure it'll work that way, we will see

I just can't do bantam's with the birds I have. They would eat them, most likely and our winters are too harsh for them. They are a little flighty, but not in a bad way. It seems to help them evade predation better than the bigger breeds. They also seem to teach the other birds to pay more attention. Really really like this breed.

I am first and foremost a Barred Plymouth Rock woman. Raised, bred and showed them for 30 years. Lived on a farm, so they HAD to produce. If not, they were culled. I admit, as a kid I DID compromise some of the utility so I could show and win. I learned the hard way that utility is first and foremost and my issues came from inbreeding them for type and feathering mostly. When I was raising my kids, things were different. I was older and wiser and taught the kids that both were important and the kids had to include utility in their breeding programs even though they showed them too. Also, back then, there were more lines to cross with, to bring things back, then there are today. It kills me to see these birds in the condition some are in. They are gorgeous but can hardly get an egg out of them. There are breeders though that are bringing the utility back and I am too.

Sure wish I still had that line!!!!

Dominique has a lot of potential in a low input homestead type setting. We tend to favor the heavy hitters (big eaters), and as a result more grain dependent. There is value in the medium sized large fowl. The large dual purpose breeds became the standard with the mechanization of agriculture and cheap grain. Meat production followed along with the masses moving to the city.

Dominique in their earliest years were game mixes. The name is actually the color pattern, and only the game breeders use the name to describe that color now. They become more standardized along the way, and the standardization that called for single comes in the Rocks and rose comb in the Dominique killed the breed. The shift was to the single combed Rocks, where before it could have been hard to distinguish between the two (earliest years in a more crude form).

For whoever does not know, I will let them guess where the name comes from.

Dominique can certainly be called the earliest American breed, but is does help to understand that their type was not as refined as it is now.

I do like this breed and think they are still overlooked. A very practical option.

 

[chickadoodles]

Right..cow patties..left...stupid dog piles....right...chicken poop...left....sheep scat...does it never end?
Right, left, right, left, right, left...and so it goes....every step brings a new discovery.

So true

 

[thedragonlady]

Ok...I don't mind...chickens were first and formost bred for food production. Those who breed for 'show' generally fail to include production when working toward getting the blue ribbons.

All one need to do is read some of these breed threads to see how difficult it is to get fertile eggs and most of them have hatchery stock on the side to produce eggs for their families and even for sale.

What more proof do you need that function is what counts in the real world of eating or starving?

Whoa , Ron ! I have SQ buff Orps that bury us in eggs. I have 8 hens right now, in various stages of molt, who are still giving us 6-7 eggs a day.Crazy girls will not take a vacation, though I surely wish they would. Not a hatchery bird on the place.

And did I mention that all these girls are 10-11 lb hens that would more than make Sunday dinner?The majority of their sons do at 5-6 months.

 

[hellbender]

Whoa , Ron ! I have SQ buff Orps that bury us in eggs. I have 8 hens right now, in various stages of molt, who are still giving us 6-7 eggs a day.Crazy girls will not take a vacation, though I surely wish they would. Not a hatchery bird on the place.

Please note the word 'generally'. Of course there are some notable exceptions.

 

[gjensen]

Maybe on here that it true, but the facts are that the "heritage" birds DO live and lay longer. A second? cousin of my Dominique's is 4 and still lays an egg a day. You'd be hard put to find a commercially bred bird do that. There are a lot of breeders that do breed for show only, but there are also a lot of breeders that breed for both, SOP and utility. The reason you don't see them as much, is that they are not on forums talking about it, they are simply doing it. Plus other agricultural things, like produce, or livestock and simply don't have the time to sit on forums and talk about it. I am glad we have this forum, as being where I live, so far, I have not met anyone near enough to me, that I can work with. So come to forums, like BYC to gain knowledge. The fact is, Heritage birds have lots of qualities that the hatchery birds do not. Better health, bred for immunity, longer life spans, longer laying ability, better tasting meat. and more of it.

The commercial industry has mixed and bred birds for one thing, take the cornishx for example, Yes, they grow quickly and are at slaughter much more quickly than a Standard bred bird. But that is their ONLY function and many have health issues like legs, runny poo's ect. The layers are good for 3 years tops then they tend to develop issues like prolapsed vents, eggbound and their health is fair, and egg laying slows considerably after 18 months, and they don't have the natural immunities. Now some of that could be solved by husbandry. Look at what Beekissed has done with her meat crosses and done successfully. But all in all, the commercial birds just are not a good back yard flock. IMHO

Could a commercial layer quality bird be a better bird if crossed with a "heritage" bird? I believe yes. Would you ever get them to the SOP? I highly doubt it. BUT if your goal is to produce just layers, or a true dual purpose bird, you simply cross the two types of birds and have a GREAT dual purpose/layer bird/flock with the benefits of the heritage bird in a few generations or so. I want BOTH, to breed to the SOP AND have the utility. They did it before, so no reason it can't be done again! and is being done again. Just not as publicly!

My Dominique's are a great example of that. They are bred to the SOP and have great utility in both eggs and meat. Do you see their breeders on here? I haven't much. Only on my state page, and not often. My point? One, that birds can be both and that it IS being done with the heritage birds. There are other points but that is the basic premise.

There is no evidence that "heritage" birds live and lay longer unless you are comparing them to the laying strain hybrids, or meat strain hybrids. Hatchery birds in general tend to live just as long and are as healthy.

I am not hatchery hater, or a Standard hater. I prefer to breed my birds to the Standard. I believe any breeding effort requires a standard or some sort or it genetically drifts into something else.

On the other hand, for someone wanting some birds for purely practical reasons, there is nothing wrong with hatchery birds. Chickens are pretty forgiving and healthy if given good care. Hatchery birds do tend to be short concerning flesh.

I am not knocking what you have said, or your stand. Just calling for reason, concerning the on going debate about which is better. I do realize that mostly you are speaking of the extremes.

I do wish that hatcheries bred birds that were more faithful to breed type. I also wish the exhibition circle were more faithful to their historic role. Hopefully there will be more that put effort towards breeding good examples that performed well, and not drift towards either extreme. There are some that do of course.

 

[hellbender]

There is no evidence that "heritage" birds live and lay longer unless you are comparing them to the laying strain hybrids, or meat strain hybrids. Hatchery birds in general tend to live just as long and are as healthy.

I am not hatchery hater, or a Standard hater. I prefer to breed my birds to the Standard. I believe any breeding effort requires a standard or some sort or it genetically drifts into something else.

On the other hand, for someone wanting some birds for purely practical reasons, there is nothing wrong with hatchery birds. Chickens are pretty forgiving and healthy if given good care. Hatchery birds do tend to be short concerning flesh.

I am not knocking what you have said, or your stand. Just calling for reason, concerning the on going debate about which is better. I do realize that mostly you are speaking of the extremes.

I do wish that hatcheries bred birds that were more faithful to breed type. I also wish the exhibition circle were more faithful to their historic role. Hopefully there will be more that put effort towards breeding good examples that performed well, and not drift towards either extreme. There are some that do of course.

 

[LindaB220]

Trying to catch up...

Ron, are you still going thru with the SOP NN project. Are you breeding but just not showing. I follow the Heritage thread as well so I have heard you speak of them.

Glad to have you.