BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Turk Raphael]

I have not read anything negative until this post. All I have read is the description used to differentiate between different types. There is a difference. There is no getting around that. They are what they are. If they are from a hatchery, they are hatchery stock. If they are from an exhibition line they are a strain of exhibition birds. How else should it be said?

I'm not talking about this post alone. Many threads are somehow dedicated to showing or raising show quality birds. I am still under the impression that THIS thread was started principally for discussion of Production qualities. Please do NOT give me the song and dance about correct conformation is required to keep production birds producing...

gjensen...I really do enjoy reading your posts and frequently find very useful information. I bought 50 DC chicks for meat to tide me over until I can get my SQ birds from a breeder so please don't think I'm anti-show. In fact, that has become somewhat of an obsession in this household of late.

I apologize to all for coming unglued. This is no good excuse but I worked for 12 hours in extra-bloody carnage and I'm a little over stressed. I'm trying to unwind before I go to bed but dumping on my co-chicken friends is not a good way to do it...Again I'm sorry.

Another point I could use some help because my mind is muddled. The chicks that came friday were loud and noisy. Now they are very quiet with only the occasional peep-peep. I hope that's contentment and not distress. They have fresh water and plenty of food and we haven't yet lost a chick. I guess I can safely call it contentment?

 

[southernmomma]

 
George finding these sustainable breeds is a difficult thing-- because they are less popular and few have them, they get lost in the noise touting the popular breeds.

I started asking over 2 years ago about free ranging etc. GOt a beautiful reply from Joeseph ( Yellow House Farm)  and only at the end did someone mention games; unfortunatte ly by then the dual pupose of the more popular breeds were fixed in my head; but as I said above, I never forgot  what that man said-- while initally I didn't want to heat the advice , that changed to I just didn't know how to investigate it and find out more: all my questions were hitting closed doors. BUt I never forgot.

In my first batch of hatchery chicks I got a SSH, a little rooster that was slow to mature, and when he did he ruled the yard for a long time ( until the EE crosses grew up) and I appreciate his quick reaction time. Approachable to about 5 feet, then he was wary and could only catch him when he went to roost for the night. He was a tiny bird being hatchery, but I saw what looked like a fine example at a regional show and was stunned at the sheer size of that SSH ( SIlver Spangled Hamburg) -- and I often think of the possibility as a sustainable farm bird--.

I did not learn of the high protein requirement of the buckeye chicks until the day the chicks mailed-- was totally surprized as I have read the buckeye thread for several years, and though that might have been mentioned and went right over my head, it certainly was not a focus of dicssion like feather color is.

AM am still at trying to undestand what " sustainable" means . . . . and I suspect there are several models which reflect differing levels of self sufficency.

 You are right "sustainable" would be different for everyone.

 Part of the point that I was trying to make was the most efficient breeds, are the most neglected breeds, and the irony in that.

 You are right. Their are certain strains and breeds that dominate the scene. A lot of that is promotion, and the sheep effect. Also, the demographics of the new poultry keepers.

 You do not have to feed the buckeyes 27% feed. It is a choice, not a requirement. I guarantee you that if you fed one batch 20% and the other 27% they would average the same at the end of the season. The higher protein will only get them to the top of their growth curve sooner. Genetic potential and limitations will rule in the end.
 Whether or not the decreased time it takes to get the birds to a processing weight is worth the added cost of the feed is something you will have to evaluate. It very well may be worth the cost. Then you are not paying more, but less.

So true~ try finding finding info on a broody flock of Andalusian that are worth eating

M
(Actually, I found broody)

 

[gjensen]

I'm not talking about this post alone. Many threads are somehow dedicated to showing or raising show quality birds. I am still under the impression that THIS thread was started principally for discussion of Production qualities. Please do NOT give me the song and dance about correct conformation is required to keep production birds producing...

gjensen...I really do enjoy reading your posts and frequently find very useful information. I bought 50 DC chicks for meat to tide me over until I can get my SQ birds from a breeder so please don't think I'm anti-show. In fact, that has become somewhat of an obsession in this household of late.

I apologize to all for coming unglued. This is no good excuse but I worked for 12 hours in extra-bloody carnage and I'm a little over stressed. I'm trying to unwind before I go to bed but dumping on my co-chicken friends is not a good way to do it...Again I'm sorry.

Another point I could use some help because my mind is muddled. The chicks that came friday were loud and noisy. Now they are very quiet with only the occasional peep-peep. I hope that's contentment and not distress. They have fresh water and plenty of food and we haven't yet lost a chick. I guess I can safely call it contentment?

I think if it is kept to breeding and managing the birds and the variety of genetic resources that are available, we will stay on point.

I liked the idea of a thread that was more inclusive. I breed to the Standard, but I think breeding for production is a lost art. It can be done with all kinds of birds with a variety of goals.

I have posted at times when I would have been better off waiting. I have something that messes with me and effects my thinking some times.

It sounds like you birds are content. The loudest chirping will be when the lights go out, etc. Sounds like they have settled in.

I

 

[ronott1]

I'm not talking about this post alone. Many threads are somehow dedicated to showing or raising show quality birds. I am still under the impression that THIS thread was started principally for discussion of Production qualities. Please do NOT give me the song and dance about correct conformation is required to keep production birds producing...

gjensen...I really do enjoy reading your posts and frequently find very useful information. I bought 50 DC chicks for meat to tide me over until I can get my SQ birds from a breeder so please don't think I'm anti-show. In fact, that has become somewhat of an obsession in this household of late.

I apologize to all for coming unglued. This is no good excuse but I worked for 12 hours in extra-bloody carnage and I'm a little over stressed. I'm trying to unwind before I go to bed but dumping on my co-chicken friends is not a good way to do it...Again I'm sorry.

Another point I could use some help because my mind is muddled. The chicks that came friday were loud and noisy. Now they are very quiet with only the occasional peep-peep. I hope that's contentment and not distress. They have fresh water and plenty of food and we haven't yet lost a chick. I guess I can safely call it contentment?

You are correct. Hatchery bird basing is very common and this thread is a safe haven for those with hatchery breeds. I like that we are not crazy about using the exact word for a Hen or Rooster.

This is a refreshing thread!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: To understand there are more chickens out there than merely brown egg layers and cornish crosses. lol
ANd then decide if the next stone is to know the difference between breeder birds and commercial birds . . . and the differences between SQ and breeder birds . . . and the differences between SOP and production traits . . . and pick the bird that works. Not sure I wrote it well enough to make my idea understandable.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I remeber an opposite experience iwth bulls-- the new young bull at the ROckerfeller faclity at 2 years old was allowed with in a legs length of us-- literally the manager put his foot up gently to remind the bull to stay back. I was terrified to be so close to 2000 pounds with a head the size of a VW-- ( or almost. lol )

Again it is all about lines, isn't it ?

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I think there is room for much discussion on the merits of SOP, or not; hatchery stock , or why not or when not. IT is hard to not bring in the SOP at times in a discussion. THe SOP has value . . . it is about when to follow it closely for show purposes, or less closely for production reasons.

After reading THE SUSSEX by the first UK prez of the sussex club, my view shifted about SOP and I became more accepting of it. Meaning it was the original driving force behind the development of how a breed LOOKED, but did not drive the production traits. IT was a means to set the looks of the birds ( lt, red and speckled) but only an end all for those that showed, but only a "trend" not sure of a better term, for the majority of the breeders at the time putting fowl on the talbes of Londons residents.

For my EE/Am project, the GFF birds ( if they really are) are adding a lovely color to the egg shell , and I am breeding the primary male back to his daughters. I have a back that I have not tested and probably should to see if he too has the bright rich blue shell color that I get from number one.

I have not problem with the SOP birds as they are part of the history of developing a breed, and today are the best of what that breed might have to offer today given the run down condition of other ines. Breeding the lines together might be the answer to rejuvenating both lines in to a better line . . . just as DOn Schrider did by combining 3-4 lines of buckeyes carefully selectedlines, to invigorate the stock.

And while I am writing this in response to TUrks response, I am mindfull that all will read it.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Geroge-- would you could you list other breeds that you feel fall into the same thrifty catagory as the anacona-- sorry I get stuck thinking about a HUGE snake with that name!-- do all the mediteranean birds fall into that group or not??

THe birds that husltle the most here is still the SS-- of course when freeranging it is hard to gage the amt of feed they are gathering-- I would have to touch each crop on each hen and Brown Face will NEVER allow that-- he will bite me the bugger, so I trust the girls are getting enough.

To all-- A shout out for sharing your insights, links and experience-- I would never find all this stuff with out everyone chiming in and sharing.

 

[Turk Raphael]

I think there is room for much discussion on the merits of SOP, or not; hatchery stock , or why not or when not. IT is hard to not bring in the SOP at times in a discussion. THe SOP has value . . . it is about when to follow it closely for show purposes, or less closely for production reasons.

After reading THE SUSSEX by the first UK prez of the sussex club, my view shifted about SOP and I became more accepting of it. Meaning it was the original driving force behind the development of how a breed LOOKED, but did not drive the production traits. IT was a means to set the looks of the birds ( lt, red and speckled) but only an end all for those that showed, but only a "trend" not sure of a better term, for the majority of the breeders at the time putting fowl on the talbes of Londons residents.

For my EE/Am project, the GFF birds ( if they really are) are adding a lovely color to the egg shell , and I am breeding the primary male back to his daughters. I have a back that I have not tested and probably should to see if he too has the bright rich blue shell color that I get from number one.

I have not problem with the SOP birds as they are part of the history of developing a breed, and today are the best of what that breed might have to offer today given the run down condition of other ines. Breeding the lines together might be the answer to rejuvenating both lines in to a better line . . . just as DOn Schrider did by combining 3-4 lines of buckeyes carefully selectedlines, to invigorate the stock.

And while I am writing this in response to TUrks response, I am mindfull that all will read it.

Very well put and totally understood. As I mentioned (at least a couple times)

We are excitedly looking forward to having and exhibiting Buckeyes. I realize we have a long row to hoe but I feel certain it will be lots of fun, going to the shows long before we ever breed our own birds. That will be time well spent, learning more about the breed and the show process.

 

[LindaB220]

I can't get over the fact that "hatchery stock" is demonized at every opportunity. I expect it on the 'show/exhibition' threads but I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that it is dumped here too. I can't help but wonder what the folks who operate hatcheries do RIGHT? People keep them in business so perhaps folks who are into chickens for PRODUCTION OF EGGS AND MEAT are satisfied with them, HUMMM?

Turk

I think that one reason that Hatcheries are demonized is because most of the birds have been crossed with leghorns to bump up the egg production. That's why I can't get my hands on any of my birds. They run screaming if I try to pet or even touch one. I want to try something different this time.