BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

gjensen, All good points and advice. Baby steps! Slow goes the process. Will start with data and record keeping of development first. Chicks are growing fast and changing very rapidly. I will do first weight check before I coop them in another week or 2. At 6 weeks old now I just now altered feed from medicated 18% chick starter to an 18% protein starter grower feed and will up that in 2 weeks to 20% meat and broiler feed. I may cut it with some scratch grains for other nutritional benefits. I feed my dual purpose birds similar feed and am very happy with both health and productivity.

Feeding is second only to genetics.

The old timers often had feeders. Men that were good at caring for and feeding the birds. Getting them in and keeping them in condition. Then managing them during periods of maintenance.
This was before the balanced commercial rations that we have now. We benefit from that, but we have lost to. We do not have the "feeders" any more. Men that knew a line, could observe them, handle them, and know what they need to get them in top shape.

Similar to how you mentioned that you liked the results of your methods. Those methods will evolve along the way based on observation and experience. We might not get to the level the old timers did with their experience(s), but we do get to know our birds.

I try to get to know my birds. I learned to manage and feed my Catalanas differently than NHs. They are different birds, so of course.

Our birds perform their best when they are in top condition. Some are more high maintenance than others. We are obligated to get them at their best though, and realize their genetic potential.
In a performance flock, there are no periods of maintenance. Performance is a 365 day a year matter. We need them in top form, equipped to excel, all of the time. We want healthy vigorous birds. Bright red combs and wattles, a nice feather sheen, good condition overall, with an ideal weight. Not over weight, and not under weight. A lot of fat is not good unless they are being finished.
Now saying this, I never mean a bird that never looks like she laid an egg. A girl like this very well may not have ever laid an egg. Still this is no reason or excuse for poor condition.

Management does matter.

 

[dfr1973]

The first pullet bullet from a January hatch pullet: of course, it would be the single comb runt of the Wyandottes from Luanne. (Murphy runs much more than just the US army!) Well, she only looks like a runt when compared to her three hatchmate pullets. Next to the sex links she looks about normal. One now laying ... twelve more to start. We're going to be up to our ears in pullets bullets for the next month. I'm thinking about hard-boiling then pickling all the bullets.

 

[Our Roost]

gjensen, 4 to near 5 years of feeding birds and still learning. Our first harvest of birds had so much fat on them that we could have made a meal out of it and all died from heart failure. This was surely not the way my grandpa's chicken looked or tasted for that matter. Ground corn mash is a fat you really don't want your birds to have too much of. Recipes for feeding chickens are more numerous than one can imagine. I grew up in a family of 8 with 2 adults in the mix. Mom was an awesome cook so not much ever went to waste. Heck, even the leftover meals were awesome. Heart issues were a big downfall for some of us. My attitude with chickens was to find their likes and dislikes while feeding them what was needed and yet have them like it. Read, read, and more reading well written articles on the health benefits and necessities required from how and what you feed them. Easy enough right? Try doing that without giving them things they shouldn't eat but with things they should. That's a start but getting them to cooperate and eat what you put in front of them comes from working with and knowing your chickens and breeds better. Process their progress and analyze over time. I'm till tinkering but seem to be on the right track. Continuous improvement.
Once again, you have touched on another important part of the process.

 

[JRNash]

From the threads Ive read ,the man is very smart

 

[Our Roost]

No argument from me, he's been a great help. Sometimes its okay to disagree as long as your listening. Ha ha.

 

[Ifish]

Feeding is second only to genetics.

The old timers often had feeders. Men that were good at caring for and feeding the birds. Getting them in and keeping them in condition. Then managing them during periods of maintenance.
This was before the balanced commercial rations that we have now. We benefit from that, but we have lost to. We do not have the "feeders" any more. Men that knew a line, could observe them, handle them, and know what they need to get them in top shape.

Similar to how you mentioned that you liked the results of your methods. Those methods will evolve along the way based on observation and experience. We might not get to the level the old timers did with their experience(s), but we do get to know our birds.

I try to get to know my birds. I learned to manage and feed my Catalanas differently than NHs. They are different birds, so of course.

Our birds perform their best when they are in top condition. Some are more high maintenance than others. We are obligated to get them at their best though, and realize their genetic potential.
In a performance flock, there are no periods of maintenance. Performance is a 365 day a year matter. We need them in top form, equipped to excel, all of the time. We want healthy vigorous birds. Bright red combs and wattles, a nice feather sheen, good condition overall, with an ideal weight. Not over weight, and not under weight. A lot of fat is not good unless they are being finished.
Now saying this, I never mean a bird that never looks like she laid an egg. A girl like this very well may not have ever laid an egg. Still this is no reason or excuse for poor condition.

Management does matter.

I really enjoy reading your posts. Sometimes it takes time for me to digest them, but they are so full of knowledge.

What differences have you noted between your NH's and Cata's as far as feed? Different protein requirements, or amounts?

What would you consider a "Performance flock?"

 

[LindaB220]

Not sure anyone here claimed sexlinks were the best layers, but they are certainly really good. Brown egg business? You should have Sexlinks, type of good.

The names for all of these sexlinks are Trademarked, and some genetic material is copyrighted. All chicks come from one source type of thing, like Monsanto seed. I feel it's a shame and will not purchase trademarked or copyrighted poultry. I have nothing against anyone who does, it's just a personal thing for myself. They certainly have their niche, but good'ole red sexlinks lay **** well without the name.

Very true. Golden Comets are easy going and lay extremely well. The only thing is they play out ofter a couple of years. I had six and sold them to do other things. But they sure laid better and bigger than the heritage white rocks I had. They laid barely large eggs. The ISA browns are special because they lay for years with no decrease or early death. That's why they are trademarked. I was going to buy 25 pullets and they were only going to be $2.38. You can make you own easy with a RIR or NH cock over Delawares, Lt Sussex or anything that has a few black feathers. ha.

 

[gjensen]

I really enjoy reading your posts. Sometimes it takes time for me to digest them, but they are so full of knowledge.

What differences have you noted between your NH's and Cata's as far as feed? Different protein requirements, or amounts?

What would you consider a "Performance flock?"

Thank you for the comments. I try to share a perspective more than any other thing. I am learning like all that are here. I may only have a head start on some because I was interested in poultry production 20 years ago. Who even knows why certain things attract our attention along the way? I do wish that as much information was as accessible then as now. I learned a lot the hard way that would be easy to pick out now. Back then I was the only weirdo (LOL) that was interested in counting eggs.

I feed the NHs and Catalanas differently because they grow out differently. Then the Cats are not as heavy, and not as profusely feathered. The Cats are two weeks ahead sexually at 8wks and much more developed than the NHs.
My method is based on that the NHs need more to reach their potential concerning performance. I can feed them 24% game bird starter for the first 8wks and realize better gains without doing any harm. After 8wks, and separating the sexes, I drop the pullets to 20% and put them on "grass". I have no interest in pushing pullets. I may continue to feed the NHs 24% up to 12 wks and then put them on grass. Putting them on "grass" is "cutting" the feed.
This year I did not do this, but the point is made.

I do not like the Catalanas on food that "hot". They get too big on their legs too fast. A 20% chick starter and free to range sees cockerels crowing around 12wks, and pullets laying fully by 20wks, and the first pullets laying by 18wks.

Raise meat birds like meat birds, layers like layers, breeder replacements like growing breeders etc.

There is not much difference from one to another. The emphasis was to know the birds, and find an ideal considering performance and cost. The concept is not foreign. Look at the different poultry feeds at the feed store. Starter, game bird starter, finisher, layer, etc. etc. Different stages/different ideals. I am only adding different genetics/ different ideals.

I connected this to the comments of feeders of the past. Good feeders know their birds, and what is best for them, when, and why. We cannot get to know them without weighing them, observing them, and most importantly, handling them.

We should desire to be good feeders.

What I was calling a performance flock was a flock of production layers or broilers etc.

 

[rc50]

Do you feed your breeding females different ? I have a few females that my male seems to enjoy more that the others... they look a bit ratted out feather wise...


Keith

 

[gjensen]

Do you feed your breeding females different ? I have a few females that my male seems to enjoy more that the others... they look a bit ratted out feather wise...


Keith

Keith, if I could access it reliably (I cannot), my breeders would get Southern State's Super Breeder. It is the best breeder ration that I have trialed. I do believe in a ration formulated for breeders. That it is what it is for after all. A breeder ration. I do believe in feeding them accordingly. Each mix is formulated for something in particular.

I have found that supplementing starter with hulled sunflower seeds and Calf Manna is about as good.

I do not think the ration will help you with this concern though. Qty. of females per male and duration is the major factors. Feather quality to, but to a lesser degree. Some feather types are softer in texture and structure and are more prone to wear. The best I would know to do is adjust the ratio and/or separate the sexes for a time.

I do not mind my hens showing some wear in breeding season, but I do not like them prone to injury either. The feather, as you know, offers some protection.

I was skeptical about saddles, but some breeders do use them to good effect. I guess it is still management at the end of the day. Maybe it is as long as I do not have to start sewing them to. LOL.