BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Kassaundra]

This is the six and a half pound cockerel Sept 8.

And with a pullet, brownleghorns behind them are 2.5 yrs.

Nice, I personally like the light (white) feathers w/ the dark skin.


This is my darkest fm boy



This boy is fm also not as dark, but larger.



This is my best fm girl, both in color and body shape / size

 

[gjensen]

All extremely helpful (including the hatching egg size issue). And your last comment seems to fit with the idea of fall hatched pullets coming into lay being more likely to lay during short days (if I understand correctly). (Paula is laying regularly so far, around 2 hours later each day.)

What's interesting about your heat comment is that this is confirmed for me in looking at my weekly growth curves - you can see what I believe is the affect of heat. The current batch of chicks hatched September 9. The week after I moved the chicks outside (second week in October), there was a last "heat wave" where it was 95-98 every day that week, and the growth curve slowed down (although there is also the move itself to consider). The two subsequent weeks the rate has increased again. (If I felt like doing the derivatives, I could plot by rate of growth...). For what it's worth, here is the latest NN chart. The slow down during the heat wave was from weeks 4-5. It has cooled down, and though they did ok with the heat (no prostration or major panting), they certainly seem more comfortable now...



I DO already know I don't want to hatch fall chicks here before October 1. (This matches usual meat bird practice here in my area...) And it gets to about 100F as early as May as well. So my windows could be a bit narrow. Looks like February/March may be what I aim for in a spring hatching. Then I can see how that goes and adjust...

- Ant Farm

All extremely helpful (including the hatching egg size issue). And your last comment seems to fit with the idea of fall hatched pullets coming into lay being more likely to lay during short days (if I understand correctly). (Paula is laying regularly so far, around 2 hours later each day.)

What's interesting about your heat comment is that this is confirmed for me in looking at my weekly growth curves - you can see what I believe is the affect of heat. The current batch of chicks hatched September 9. The week after I moved the chicks outside (second week in October), there was a last "heat wave" where it was 95-98 every day that week, and the growth curve slowed down (although there is also the move itself to consider). The two subsequent weeks the rate has increased again. (If I felt like doing the derivatives, I could plot by rate of growth...). For what it's worth, here is the latest NN chart. The slow down during the heat wave was from weeks 4-5. It has cooled down, and though they did ok with the heat (no prostration or major panting), they certainly seem more comfortable now...



I DO already know I don't want to hatch fall chicks here before October 1. (This matches usual meat bird practice here in my area...) And it gets to about 100F as early as May as well. So my windows could be a bit narrow. Looks like February/March may be what I aim for in a spring hatching. Then I can see how that goes and adjust...

- Ant Farm

Any particular stressor, to include extreme heat, can check their growth. That is not to say they it necessarily affects their adult size, but the path they take getting there.

Good management is aiming for and attempting to realize consistent and even growth. As much as possible, we want good growing conditions. That isn't to say that we should lock them in air conditioned spaces. Stress is important to. We do not want to perpetuate weakness. We also do not want to intentionally stress them ourselves by poor management. All we are going to do in this case, is produce weak and poor stock. The balance between the extremes is to aim to grow them during periods that are supportive of good growth, and to manage them well.

Length of day can affect gains to. I do not know if you have them under lights or not. (I am not suggesting that. For illustration, what you are doing is a very good demonstration.) I mention it as a factor.

One of the reasons that I mentioned length of day is your mention of meat bird houses in the fall. Pay attention, and see whether or not they are lit in the mornings or evenings. You may or may not want to grow your birds during periods of decreasing daylight.

Another reason I mention it is this. There are a number of characteristics that make modern broilers what they are. One of them is appetite. The reason I say this is to illustrate how length of day can influence their growth. The more they eat, the more they grow. The more time in front of the feeders, the more they eat. So . . . if they are asleep, they are not eating. If they are not eating, they are not growing. "So to speak."

It is too bad that you are not charting qty. of feed consumed also. That would demonstrate pounds of feed per pound of gain.

 

[Beer can]

Wow! @Kassaundra those are some awesome looking birds! Edible turkey buzzards...lol.

 

[Kassaundra]

Wow! @Kassaundra those are some awesome looking birds! Edible turkey buzzards...lol.

Thanks, I came across NN accidentally several years ago and they work so well in our hot long summers it is all I keep now. Well that and really naked ones

 

[varidgerunner]

I tried the Dark Cornish for a while, looking for a superior carcass bird. The ones I tried were nice birds, but not all that meaty. They were hatchery birds, not show birds. Here is a pic of a seven month old eight pounder, raised by his mom on mostly bugs and seeds and a little scratch grain. They have an almost Cornish physique, yet functional and efficient foragers. They don't waste a lot of energy on feather growing, either. Very tight feathers.

Here as a chick.

Interesting fact for folks that appreciate chicken stock or broth, the true oriental games have marrow filled bones.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Any particular stressor, to include extreme heat, can check their growth. That is not to say they it necessarily affects their adult size, but the path they take getting there.

Good management is aiming for and attempting to realize consistent and even growth. As much as possible, we want good growing conditions. That isn't to say that we should lock them in air conditioned spaces. Stress is important to. We do not want to perpetuate weakness. We also do not want to intentionally stress them ourselves by poor management. All we are going to do in this case, is produce weak and poor stock. The balance between the extremes is to aim to grow them during periods that are supportive of good growth, and to manage them well.

Length of day can affect gains to. I do not know if you have them under lights or not. (I am not suggesting that. For illustration, what you are doing is a very good demonstration.) I mention it as a factor.

One of the reasons that I mentioned length of day is your mention of meat bird houses in the fall. Pay attention, and see whether or not they are lit in the mornings or evenings. You may or may not want to grow your birds during periods of decreasing daylight.

Another reason I mention it is this. There are a number of characteristics that make modern broilers what they are. One of them is appetite. The reason I say this is to illustrate how length of day can influence their growth. The more they eat, the more they grow. The more time in front of the feeders, the more they eat. So . . . if they are asleep, they are not eating. If they are not eating, they are not growing. "So to speak."

It is too bad that you are not charting qty. of feed consumed also. That would demonstrate pounds of feed per pound of gain.

I had remembered you had said that about lights and growth/appetite - so when they were in the brooder (first four weeks, essentially the month of September), I kept lights on later into the evening, so that they got about 14-16 hours light. I "weaned" them into more darkness the last week so it wouldn't be too much of a shock once they were outside (in a tractor - no ability to use lights). (Doing the same thing for the hatchery speckled sussex chicks right now as well).

I have been too all over the place in figuring out feeders that work well to track food and have it mean anything. I spent a lot of time playing catch up fighting the billing out issue in the brooder, and lots and lots of feed ended up in the bedding. I think when I have a better handle of how to prevent this much waste proactively and get a better "system" down of chick feeders by size/age, then feed input would probably mean more, data-wise.

- Ant Farm

 

[Mini Meat]

I tried the Dark Cornish for a while, looking for a superior carcass bird. The ones I tried were nice birds, but not all that meaty. They were hatchery birds, not show birds. Here is a pic of a seven month old eight pounder, raised by his mom on mostly bugs and seeds and a little scratch grain. They have an almost Cornish physique, yet functional and efficient foragers. They don't waste a lot of energy on feather growing, either. Very tight feathers.

Here as a chick.

Interesting fact for folks that appreciate chicken stock or broth, the true oriental games have marrow filled bones.

Thank you for the tip about the marrow bones. That does interest me.

I am a bit confused... Is the cockerel in the pic a DC or a game? If game, what kind of game?

I had originally wanted to cross DC's with Cubalayas, but the Cubs, although nice birds in their own right, do not measure up to the DCs in any way for my particular desires.

The only places I would plus the Cubs over the DCs is in friendliness (not a trait I rank high in a meat bird) and broodiness (I got pullets brooding as soon as they laid a full clutch).

I am thinking I may try a few Asils next year.

I want to breed birds for making stock.

 

[Beer can]

Thank you for the tip about the marrow bones. That does interest me.

I am a bit confused... Is the cockerel in the pic a DC or a game? If game, what kind of game?

I had originally wanted to cross DC's with Cubalayas, but the Cubs, although nice birds in their own right, do not measure up to the DCs in any way for my particular desires.

The only places I would plus the Cubs over the DCs is in friendliness (not a trait I rank high in a meat bird) and broodiness (I got pullets brooding as soon as they laid a full clutch).

I am thinking I may try a few Asils next year.

I want to breed birds for making stock.

X2, wondered the same.
Asils are cool, I've always wanted to have Malay, I think they are taller/bigger then Asil, and part of what went into RIRs breeding history. Could not find any in the US when I was interested. Wasn't sure if I could have them in our super cold winters either. Not to long ago I found out a guy I was keeping in touch with on BYC has a few Malay in northern PA not to far from me. He winters them in his greenhouse, great idea.
Right now I just want to focus on a couple breeds, maybe down the road I might try them, would love to see a three foot tall rooster in person.

 

[varidgerunner]

The birds are half Ga Noi and half Asil. Had to cross some Asil on them to get some more feathers. The full Ga Noi don't like the cold. With Asil I don't lose the type or the extreme friendliness. Someone further south could do well with a Ga Noi for making meat birds. IA lot of them run up to ten pounds. They would throw more sparse feathering on anything you crossed with, and a big frame with well developed breast. I have one pullet that turned six months old and showed up with chicks and another that has given me an egg a day since early September. They aren't cheap, but the hens keep on going for years and years.

I hear you on the Cubas, there are some people working on getting them bigger. The oriental games can bring a lot to the table, literally, in a meat bird, they are the genetic well that the Cornish was drawn from.

 

[varidgerunner]

I know the Malay of which you speak, and those are some nice birds. There are many forms of Asil. Most people agree that the Malay, as it is called in this country is a derivation of the South Indian Asil, sometimes called the Kulang. Names were easy to throw around and labels stuck pretty tight sometimes, back when people started seeing these different birds. Basically, you start in Pakistan and you have Asil, Indian Asil, and they turn into Thai gamefowl. Ga Noi in Viet Nam and finally Shamo in Japan. Shamo came from birds that were from Thailand, historically. So in that area there are different varieties but with lot's of similarities. Also the Brazilians. developed from Imported Shamo a long time ago and the Cubalayas. From what I've read, Saipans were Shamos gone wild, and while a little unique, the main line died out in this country and nobody really knows where the hatchery strains came from. Some would say that the Madagascar Game is related to the group and some also believe that that is where the Naked Necks came from.

My Asils are Pakistani, and only get around six pounds, somewhat slow growing, but ample breast meat and they taste like pheasant or grouse to me. They are the backbone of my chick rearing team. I have some crosses planned with those to try and make something along the lines of Cornish game hen.