BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Fire Ant Farm]

So many people have no problems w/ them, even local to me people (so no weird Oklahoma vortex going on) I do not know why my experiences have been so bad w/ it. I love the being able to see the eggs the ease of use and it is rock solid on temps. It has caused me to be near professional at "birthing" hatching chicks though.

Maybe it's defective?

 

[ronott1]

So many people have no problems w/ them, even local to me people (so no weird Oklahoma vortex going on) I do not know why my experiences have been so bad w/ it. I love the being able to see the eggs the ease of use and it is rock solid on temps. It has caused me to be near professional at "birthing" hatching chicks though.

I too have had fantastic hatches in my Brinsea.

Yours was likely not working correctly. I do not see lots of people having bad hatches with them and it could be something in your area that causes it.

The most common cause of the problem you are describing is temperatures too low. It only has to be a degree too low over the hatch too. I have worked with people that did find out that there incubator was set too low and they corrected it and went on to have great hatches.

It did require getting a good thermometer--not one from Walmart. The Brinsea spot check is the most accurate thermometer for incubating.

 

[Kassaundra]

That is one design flaw w/ the Brinsea, they have extremely crappy thermometers and almost impossible to see. I will double check the temps next time I hatch just to see if that might be it.

 

[dfr1973]

On the subject of incubators, I asked Luanne (cpartist) who is one county west of me, and she recommended the GQF Hovabator Genesis. I have my 4th overall hatch set yesterday. I also bought the auto-turner and an extra thermometer/hygrometer for backup reading, and am very glad I did. The Genesis works great, but the thermostat is not calibrated correctly, so I turned the set temp down to 98.0F from the factory preset of 100.0F and I am now happy with my hatch rates. Incubator + turner + thermometer = $220 from Amazon.

My friend has three (3!) of those Little Giant incubators like TSC sells, and all three are broken. Her words, "They crap out before the first hatch even!" I am starting to toy with the idea of making one into a hatcher by using the parts, and she is now seriously considering buying a Genesis Hovabator like mine. If my friend was on BYC and saw your post, she'd warn against cheaping out too much.

 

[AnthNDacula]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on incubators. I've taken notes on all your recommendations and will research it all. Have got to give props to Ipatelski for her engineering prowess. That home built system is pretty amazing and looks to be very practical. I'll read up on it as well as all the pre-made models. I really appreciate all the input.

 

[AnthNDacula]

I have a breeding question. I've been able to find some "production" Buckeye crosses, which are a cross of a good laying Buckeye strain (line?) with production bred Rhode Island Reds.
Let's say in theory, that these hybrids turn out to be exceptional layers and I want to bring that egg laying ability into my flock of purebred Buckeyes which are poor layers.
Let's also say in theory, I end up with a hybrid hen that has out produced the rest, and she's the one I'm most interested in. She will of course have a heterozygous pea/single comb. I will have a number of her "brothers" to choose from as well. These "brothers" will have genes from a better laying strain of Buckeyes than mine.
Could I "concentrate" the egg laying ability of the hybrid?
Would there be any advantage to crossing her with a brother and then select the best-laying -most- Buckeye-looking F2 hen, to cross into my purebred flock? That would take an extra year, would it be worthwhile doing that?
Or would it be best to just take the best hybrid layer and cross directly with a Buckeye rooster and select afterwards?

The goals would be two fold, one to get the better egg laying ability, and to remove the single comb from the next generations, and hopefully end up with Buckeyes that look like Buckeyes.
How should I proceed?

Excellent topic. Thanks for bringing it up. In my opinion (and we all have one of those) it would be important to remember the Buckeye has just recently been brought back from the brink of extinction. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's all worth restating. The Livestock Conservancy devoted considerable resources to restoring the Buckeye in the last few years and did that by breeding up from a tiny population and not outcrossing to other breeds. Maintaining the original genetics is still crucial for that breed. Having said that I can certainly understand the desire to outcross and improve egg production. I would just suggest that if you do so and share those birds with others in the future be sure to emphasize it is a "production strain" with RIR blood introduced. For anyone who might not already know, there's lots of good info at The Livestock Conservancy's website on breeding for egg production at http://www.livestockconservancy.org/images/uploads/docs/ALBCchicken_assessment-2.pdf as well as info on breeder selection and meat production.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Excellent topic. Thanks for bringing it up. In my opinion (and we all have one of those) it would be important to remember the Buckeye has just recently been brought back from the brink of extinction. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's all worth restating. The Livestock Conservancy devoted considerable resources to restoring the Buckeye in the last few years and did that by breeding up from a tiny population and not outcrossing to other breeds. Maintaining the original genetics is still crucial for that breed. Having said that I can certainly understand the desire to outcross and improve egg production. I would just suggest that if you do so and share those birds with others in the future be sure to emphasize it is a "production strain" with RIR blood introduced. For anyone who might not already know, there's lots of good info at The Livestock Conservancy's website on breeding for egg production at http://www.livestockconservancy.org/images/uploads/docs/ALBCchicken_assessment-2.pdf as well as info on breeder selection and meat production.

Absolutely I agree, I have no wish to hide the background or pass them off as pure.

You've brought up a valid point that I find mystifying- unlike other purebred animals that require a pedigree, according to the definition of Standard Bred if it looks like a specific chicken breed and passes the SOP judging protocol, it IS that breed no matter what it's background is. So if I crossed a Kraienkoppe with a Shamo (just saying!) and got a chick that looked like a Buckeye, I could win shows and have a Champion prize winning Buckeye. Which I find odd.

 

[Kassaundra]

Absolutely I agree, I have no wish to hide the background or pass them off as pure.

You've brought up a valid point that I find mystifying- unlike other purebred animals that require a pedigree, according to the definition of Standard Bred if it looks like a specific chicken breed and passes the SOP judging protocol, it IS that breed no matter what it's background is. So if I crossed a Kraienkoppe with a Shamo (just saying!) and got a chick that looked like a Buckeye, I could win shows and have a Champion prize winning Buckeye. Which I find odd.

I have brought that point up before on some "breeding' threads and get told, it will never happen, no way you can breed two birds of different breeds, or one of one and one of another, and get a bird that will meet sop of any breed. I don't know that I believe the circular thinking, but breeders believe it for sure.

 

[hellbender]

I have brought that point up before on some "breeding' threads and get told, it will never happen, no way you can breed two birds of different breeds, or one of one and one of another, and get a bird that will meet sop of any breed. I don't know that I believe the circular thinking, but breeders believe it for sure.

It certainly can and has been done. I could mention one instance in dog breeding but I'll not make this long-winded.

While one can breed together two different breeds and create a bird that fits the conformation of a so-called pure bred, just one generation of inbreeding will 'out' the scheme.

 

[AnthNDacula]

Certainly you could recreate a breed of chicken thru intensive selection but would that recreation have all the hidden genetic value of the original breed? For example take the Fayoumi which has thrived in the face of Mareks for centuries. (SP?) You might be able to create a bird that looks and even acts like it but would that bird have all the unique genes inherent in the original? The Fayoumi probably has genes we'll never even know about... resistance to any number of diseases that live in the marshes around the Nile River. But when a mosquito travels in a water filled, ballast tank from Egypt to California and starts infecting all the California chickens with an exotic, new strain of Mareks disease, the cure might just be in the original Fayoumi... but not in the recreation.