BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[bnjrob]

Quote: True! The old foundation breeds, are always the ones in trouble. Folks want the newest, flashiest feathered bird - just like they want the newest, flashiest smart phone. They don't stop to think that if the foundation breeds are lost, the breeds that used them in their creation could be lost as well.

 

[DesertChic]

True! The old foundation breeds, are always the ones in trouble. Folks want the newest, flashiest feathered bird - just like they want the newest, flashiest smart phone. They don't stop to think that if the foundation breeds are lost, the breeds that used them in their creation could be lost as well.

Which is why I spent so much time banging my head over tying to find classic Silver Grey Dorkings. I finally had to accept that it just isn't going to happen anytime soon so I can focus on my Naked Necks instead.

 

[bnjrob]

Quote:
That is just sad when someone really wants one of these old birds and they can't be found. That's an issue that has frustrated me about the APA and breed clubs. They are often more worried about show points and all the politics than about preserving these birds. They have a prime opportunity to make it part of their mission to be stewards of poultry and actively work to help preserve these birds, and yet they don't. They moan and groan about the loss of heritage poultry yet they do nothing to actively combat the problem, citing lack of time and money because the officers are all volunteer. People make the time and use money, to do things that are important to them. But it seems like a lot of these great old breeds just don't have enough champions willing to make them a priority.

 

[hellbender]

Bingo! I also think you could take this a step further and say that Grandma's RIR and Grandpa's Buckeyes and so on were better than today's because they were still riding the hybrid vigor wave that made them perform so well and become so popular. Crossbreds are a good path to a superior product but the important thing to remember is the importance of maintaining pure lines with which to cross breed from.

Learned from HB- if you need good pasterns you need to go to Helen Hunt for them.

@varidgerunner ...keep our discussion of a few weeks past in mind. "SHORTY' is a welcome addition to my little circus but our understanding is still in force so far as I'm concerned...and you?

 

[lpatelski]

Is that a styrofoam cooler?

yes we receive large shipments of cooled vaccines and testing supplies for the animal shelter.

 

[AnthNDacula]

There have been breeders who say that it's critical that the foundation breeds should be preserved - it would probably be impossible to re- create the Fayoumi or the Dorking. However, it could be possible to "re-create" a facsimile of the Lamona, or the Delaware for example (although they would never be exactly the same as the original of course). And unfortunately it seems that the foundation breeds are in the most trouble. I don't know of anyone who breeds White Faced Spanish, or Campine, only the hatcheries seem to have any at all and I wonder if they are even pure any more. I think the Redcap is headed for extinction........ as well as many others, too soon.
I tried to source some rose combed Anconas,from someone, anyone, anywhere in Canada, no luck. At least Yellow House Farm still has them, White Dorkings too.
If I lived in a warmer climate Fayoumis would definitely be on my must have list. A very interesting breed of Chicken.

I absolutely agree with everything you said. And interesting that you should mention the Lamona and Delaware because people have attempted to recreate both of them from their original formulas in the last few years. I'm hoping that since we are in the New Era of the Chicken (my newly coined phrase), some of the new chicken lovers will take up the challenge of resurrecting more of the truly foundational breeds like the Spanish, Campine and Redcap. I'm waiting on my first shipment of Yellow House White Dorkings although from another breeder than Yellow House. This will be my first foray into SOP chickens, and I'm pretty excited about it. It all started with my search for a good, dependably broody hen. Silkies were too delicate for my situation. I love American Games but they are to evil to be around the many people here at my farm. The Dorking seemed like a good tempered option... but then I saw pics of the Yellow House birds and fell in love. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that one day in the next few months I'll get that email telling me they are on their way.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I want opinions!!!

I'm sketching out plans for breeding pens, to be kept in 4x8 panels (for disassembly and storage). Background: I have roughly 1 acre int ehback yard, maybe half of that clear enough to use for chicken housing. I have two major coops/families (Egg Coop, aka Cream Legbars, and Meat coop, aka Naked Necks), each of which has a large paddock for ranging (to be rotated for ground renewal). I need additional pens for breeding, extra rooster housing, brooding, and/or quarantine. I have little nooks everywhere for these. I don't have the sketches done yet, but here's the idea. If it works out well, I'll produce multiples:

The whole pen is 4 feet wide and 12 feet long, 8 feet high. (ranging outside of this area would depend on use of pen, e.g., quarantine vs extra rooster). Enclosed "Henhouse" elevated 4 feet above the ground (with ramp up), made of plywood, 4x4x4 sides, with nest box/egg door on one side, roost in center/back, and along the back, opens to get to scoopable dropping pan filled with sand/sweetPDZ. Under the henhouse is where the feed and water will be kept; ability to shade in summer depending on location. Remainder of pen is a run lined with hardware cloth, built of 4x8 panels of HW cloth stapled to 2x2 lumber (one panel with human door). Covered with plastic netting overhead. Deep litter method.

Thoughts? Input?

(I'll try to upload sketches once I finish them.)

- Ant Farm

 

[Mini Meat]

I have mixed feelings about Heritage breeds.

They were created for a time and place. Neither of which I live in. I see them as a great jumping off point, but I am more interested in selecting birds to fit my own needs and priorities. I do not wish to breed mongrels but I am more than willing cross breed then to run off of hybrid vigor for a while. We could not have the diversity in chickens breeds ( or any animal breed) that we have today if not for cross breeding and then line or inbreeding.

My hope is to have two or more lines of unrelated birds that follow that formula so I can weave them in and out for decades to come. I know they will lack consistency in some areas but so long as the meet my core criteria... I am good with that.

I mean no disrespect to those who enjoy working to preserve heritage breeds. We al have different goals and desires.

 

[3riverschick]

I want opinions!!!

I'm sketching out plans for breeding pens, to be kept in 4x8 panels (for disassembly and storage). Background: I have roughly 1 acre int ehback yard, maybe half of that clear enough to use for chicken housing. I have two major coops/families (Egg Coop, aka Cream Legbars, and Meat coop, aka Naked Necks), each of which has a large paddock for ranging (to be rotated for ground renewal). I need additional pens for breeding, extra rooster housing, brooding, and/or quarantine. I have little nooks everywhere for these. I don't have the sketches done yet, but here's the idea. If it works out well, I'll produce multiples:

The whole pen is 4 feet wide and 12 feet long, 8 feet high. (ranging outside of this area would depend on use of pen, e.g., quarantine vs extra rooster). Enclosed "Henhouse" elevated 4 feet above the ground (with ramp up), made of plywood, 4x4x4 sides, with nest box/egg door on one side, roost in center/back, and along the back, opens to get to scoopable dropping pan filled with sand/sweetPDZ. Under the henhouse is where the feed and water will be kept; ability to shade in summer depending on location. Remainder of pen is a run lined with hardware cloth, built of 4x8 panels of HW cloth stapled to 2x2 lumber ( make these 2x4 to keep out varmints and keep from twisting panes in the wind. Carriage bolt the panels together for strength. If you have any narrow wire spots like where the panels join the house, put wood over those narrow spots. We had an opossum break into the run thru such a space because the wire was tauter and he could get a grip on it to rip it. The larger wire areas in the panels I think had too much "give for him to get it ripped. This was chicken wire. Yes, the birds had been forted up in the coop and were not hurt. We trapped it. ) (one panel with human door). Covered with plastic netting overhead. (Nope, use chicken wire. No need for expensive hardware cloth when the variments can just come down thru the netting roof) Deep litter method.

Thoughts? Input?
I use the panel system and love it. Easy to assemble, reconfigure and repair.
(I'll try to upload sketches once I finish them.)

- Ant Farm
Best Regards,
Karen in western PA, USA

 

[bnjrob]

I want opinions!!!

I'm sketching out plans for breeding pens, to be kept in 4x8 panels (for disassembly and storage). Background: I have roughly 1 acre int ehback yard, maybe half of that clear enough to use for chicken housing. I have two major coops/families (Egg Coop, aka Cream Legbars, and Meat coop, aka Naked Necks), each of which has a large paddock for ranging (to be rotated for ground renewal). I need additional pens for breeding, extra rooster housing, brooding, and/or quarantine. I have little nooks everywhere for these. I don't have the sketches done yet, but here's the idea. If it works out well, I'll produce multiples:

The whole pen is 4 feet wide and 12 feet long, 8 feet high. (ranging outside of this area would depend on use of pen, e.g., quarantine vs extra rooster). Enclosed "Henhouse" elevated 4 feet above the ground (with ramp up), made of plywood, 4x4x4 sides, with nest box/egg door on one side, roost in center/back, and along the back, opens to get to scoopable dropping pan filled with sand/sweetPDZ. Under the henhouse is where the feed and water will be kept; ability to shade in summer depending on location. Remainder of pen is a run lined with hardware cloth, built of 4x8 panels of HW cloth stapled to 2x2 lumber (one panel with human door). Covered with plastic netting overhead. Deep litter method.

Thoughts? Input?

(I'll try to upload sketches once I finish them.)

- Ant Farm

2x2 lumber is not sturdy enough. It tends to split easily when you put in staples and screws. Even the treated 2x2s tend to warp badly with the cycles of wet/dry. Not to mention it is easy for a canine type predator to get it into its mouth and tear things up. I would recommend a minimum of using 2x3 if not a 2x4 lumber.

4x4 is not very big for a henhouse. I have a few 4x4 ft houses with attached runs. I find that for our large fowl birds, 4 hens in one is pushing it. When you free range, you can put a lot more birds into a smaller space but when they are confined, they need more room to keep the pecking order problems down to a minimum. This becomes even more of an issue in bad weather, when they seek shelter inside and don't have enough room. You'll need to look at how many birds you're planning on having. With a 4x4 house, you may need more houses than you anticipate in order to work two flocks for serious goal oriented breeding.

Plastic netting overhead is not going to keep out predators except for maybe aerial predators. The plastic netting also does not give much stability to the run at the top and is subject to faster deterioration from UV light/weather exposure than wire. You really need welded wire at the minimum to keep out larger predators that can climb. The wire will also give stability at the top so that you don't have to use so many crosspieces/rafters, to give the run good stability.

We use a double layer system with welded wire and chicken wire for teenage and adult chickens - welded keeps the predators out and the chicken wire keeps the chicken parts in. For runs that will have younger birds/chicks in them, we use a combo of welded wire and hardware cloth. The chicken and hardware cloth is used to line the bottom walls of the run up 2-3 ft up from the ground. And of course hardware cloth on any windows/vents in the coop.