BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Beer can]

"Production" means to me, eating them eggs and meat. It does not mean to me we should only be breeding for the most productive fastest growing, not saying to do the opposite either. Production; producing them for my freezer and table, not for pets or show.
I plan on breeding my birds as SOP as I can and keeping them purebred. If they are not nor ever become show quality in a judge's eye, no biggie, I'll be eating them anyway.
And I look forward to some experimental crosses as side projects for fun

 

[bnjrob]

Quote: No, we don't make anything that can be disassembled. When you make things that can come apart and be put away, you wind up having to sacrifice some security and sturdiness. For us, with birds that are not easily replaced, it's not a risk we want to take.

You could make these modular with the way that I built them. When assembled, they would be even heavier than these are, because you'll have to make each side wall module a separate 4 sided frame, rather than just having a ridge beam and rafters that you are attaching the wire to permanently. But I can see how it could be done.

Here are some photos of our small a-frames. The bottom framing is either 4x8 or 4x10 ft. They could be expanded to 4x12. They are roughly 3 ft tall at the peak.

The covered apartment on the angled sides is 2 ft wide, to accommodate a single cut of PVC corrugated roofing panel. This could be expanded to 4 ft wide and could also be made using plywood, which would make it heavier and for a modular approach, would be easier to take on and off. The back is plywood.

With these PVC side walls, I tack on a Tyvek feed sack to make a slight hammock between the two 2x4 rafters (white side on the inside to reflect light so it isn't so dark inside). I cut a piece of 1 inch foam board insulation with the metallic side UP to reflect sun/heat away. The insulation board is attached to 3 crosspieces. The insulation is put between the rafters, with the feed sack hammock making the inside wall covering, the crosspieces are screwed to the rafters. 1/4 hardware cloth is put on the entire apartment area on top of the insulation and crosspieces. The PVC roofing panels go on top of this. Air space is left at the top to let heat out from the apartment, and then a piece of roofing panel is put on top

If you use PVC panels, we found it is much cheaper and sturdier, by NOT using the fancy screws the PVC roofing panel company recommends. We use 1 1/4 inch exterior screws put through a fender washer that is 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches across.


You can see the ridge cap made of PVC roofing panel. We don't suck it down tight to the roof, to allow heat escape from inside the apartment. Double layer shade cloth is seen on here and it is a must. It ends about 18 inches up from the base for good air flow. This winter we actually changed over to putting PVC roofing panels in place of the shade cloth permanently so I don't have to mess with putting tarps on for rain protection in winter. For winter also, I put clear PVC panels on the door side of the wire to provide north wind protection for them.

You can just see the edge of the crosspieces sticking out at the end of the roofing panels where the screws and washers are at. The roost is removable. 1/4 inch hardware cloth is on the apartment floor to keep them up out of the wet. The large pieces of wood hanging off are the doorstops for the large access door.





On these, because they are on the ground, 2 ft hardware cloth is put on with welded wire on top of that. These were made to be multifunctional. For a hen brooding chicks, we have to put a step in for them, since the 2x4 is too tall for them to get into the apartment. A feeder and nipple bucket is hung from an eye screw in the ridge beam, right in front of the access door for easy refilling.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Oh, no argument there! I just consider breeding for style without the substance to be a job only half-done. Half-done is better than not done at all. Again, that is my personal OPINION, so that and two dollars (US) will get you a cup of coffee at the local mom-n-pop diner in town.

Disease resistance ... now there is an interesting topic. Right now, my idea of "biosecurity" is keeping the bears away from my livestock, and I tend to medicate wet fowl pox (a yearly event, it appears) to prevent secondary bacterial infection, but other than that I just wait out to see who thrives here versus who doesn't. I think the 1/3 initial loss (5 out of 15) on the splash Silkies had something to do with that. For someone who is primarily breeding for own needs first, simply choosing the most vigorous of the batches looks like the intuitive way to do that. I am also applying that idea to my garden on species I can save my own seed.

I don't have a beef with SOP per se, just the tendency to over focus on color and comb configuration to the detriment of auto sexing, egg production, and occasionally body configuration (most of which are actually WRITTEN into the SOP). You can't see how well a chick was auto sexed when you have them as an adult at a show - likewise, no way to judge egg production or color at a show. Perhaps this is why this happens with folks that over-focus on show results.

With regard to disease resistance, totally agree, I am going to have to work on this, as I already know I have Mareks on my property (I have a CL pullet with ocular Mareks). All my current birds are vaccinated (at hatchery), but I'm beginning to hatch my own. I'm just going to have to select for those who do ok. Current plan is not to vaccinate.

(I'm on BYC because I'm procrastinating, but I really need to get going - I need to go buy some more lumber for the coop building...)

- Ant Farm

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

No, we don't make anything that can be disassembled. When you make things that can come apart and be put away, you wind up having to sacrifice some security and sturdiness. For us, with birds that are not easily replaced, it's not a risk we want to take.

You could make these modular with the way that I built them. When assembled, they would be even heavier than these are, because you'll have to make each side wall module a separate 4 sided frame, rather than just having a ridge beam and rafters that you are attaching the wire to permanently. But I can see how it could be done.

Here are some photos of our small a-frames. The bottom framing is either 4x8 or 4x10 ft. They could be expanded to 4x12. They are roughly 3 ft tall at the peak.

The covered apartment on the angled sides is 2 ft wide, to accommodate a single cut of PVC corrugated roofing panel. This could be expanded to 4 ft wide and could also be made using plywood, which would make it heavier and for a modular approach, would be easier to take on and off. The back is plywood.

With these PVC side walls, I tack on a Tyvek feed sack to make a slight hammock between the two 2x4 rafters (white side on the inside to reflect light so it isn't so dark inside). I cut a piece of 1 inch foam board insulation with the metallic side UP to reflect sun/heat away. The insulation board is attached to 3 crosspieces. The insulation is put between the rafters, with the feed sack hammock making the inside wall covering, the crosspieces are screwed to the rafters. 1/4 hardware cloth is put on the entire apartment area on top of the insulation and crosspieces. The PVC roofing panels go on top of this. Air space is left at the top to let heat out from the apartment, and then a piece of roofing panel is put on top

If you use PVC panels, we found it is much cheaper and sturdier, by NOT using the fancy screws the PVC roofing panel company recommends. We use 1 1/4 inch exterior screws put through a fender washer that is 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches across.


You can see the ridge cap made of PVC roofing panel. We don't suck it down tight to the roof, to allow heat escape from inside the apartment. Double layer shade cloth is seen on here and it is a must. It ends about 18 inches up from the base for good air flow. This winter we actually changed over to putting PVC roofing panels in place of the shade cloth permanently so I don't have to mess with putting tarps on for rain protection in winter. For winter also, I put clear PVC panels on the door side of the wire to provide north wind protection for them.

You can just see the edge of the crosspieces sticking out at the end of the roofing panels where the screws and washers are at. The roost is removable. 1/4 inch hardware cloth is on the apartment floor to keep them up out of the wet. The large pieces of wood hanging off are the doorstops for the large access door.





On these, because they are on the ground, 2 ft hardware cloth is put on with welded wire on top of that. These were made to be multifunctional. For a hen brooding chicks, we have to put a step in for them, since the 2x4 is too tall for them to get into the apartment. A feeder and nipple bucket is hung from an eye screw in the ridge beam, right in front of the access door for easy refilling.

This is UNBELIEVABLY helpful!!!! I think I will build a few of these for rooster housing and brooding - I have some spots in the yard where I could "park" them if for some reason they are empty. (How heavy are they to move if you need to?)

Do you happen to know what the angle of the cut is on the 2x4s on the sides, at the bottom and at the ridgeline? (I can figure it out if you don't, but just wondering...)

- Ant Farm

 

[bnjrob]

Just a thought, if there weren't breeders who breed for show most of the less productive (probably most of, actually) would have been exctinct a long time ago. I thank the show bird breeders and the hatcheries for keeping many breeds alive. They have given us the opportunity to mess around with them and now we all at least have the chance to try to improve their production abilities, but I don't think they ever will produce like today's modern hybrids.
I really do think one are has been overlooked and anthNDacula has touched upon it- breeding for disease resistance. Which of course goes hand in hand with production ability.

I don't think that the decline in old breeds is so much related to their poor production as opposed to the change in our culture.

Our culture went from agrarian to urban. Fewer people were keeping chickens for their own use. It was the push of the commercial poultry industry to get a bird that was bigger in a shorter amount of time and to lay nonstop so that they could have the highest profit margin to pay their investors.

Small flock owners trying to be self-sufficient can quite adequately feed themselves using the old breeds. Bee is a most excellent example of what she does with her Rocks that mostly forage for their food and still produce great meat and eggs. She is probably the closest I've seen to having an old fashioned farm like it would have been 100 years ago. It is only because the commercial poultry industry (and the govt) still continues to monopolize the information (propaganda) out there that people think the old breeds are not good enough anymore. Yes, some exhibition breeders have bred themselves into a corner by making pretty feathered birds and not paying a lick of attention to the production qualities of a utility bird. But people have become accustomed to assuming that everything old is not good enough and that it needs fixing. They think it needs to be larger, faster, flashier, or it isn't good enough. It's that mentality of needing to keep up with the neighbor and not being content with what is available. It isn't the birds that changed and became obsolete. It's the culture of our society.

 

[bnjrob]

Quote:
This is UNBELIEVABLY helpful!!!! I think I will build a few of these for rooster housing and brooding - I have some spots in the yard where I could "park" them if for some reason they are empty. (How heavy are they to move if you need to?)

Do you happen to know what the angle of the cut is on the 2x4s on the sides, at the bottom and at the ridgeline? (I can figure it out if you don't, but just wondering...)

- Ant Farm
They have a cable attached to the front base on both sides. I usually move them with the riding lawnmower, but I can pull them myself if I put on gloves. These were meant to be moved and we do move them. We like to move them to fresh grass at least once a week. We set them where we can just pull them forward to get to the new grass.

The angle is an odd one. We have to cut the rafters using a circular saw because the angle is too funky for the miter saw. The rafters on the bottom have different cuts on them depending on whether or not they are at the ends or in the middle of the pen. I'll try to find my template rafter and take a photo of it for you.

 

[Beer can]

I saw this last yr looking for ideas for a tractor. Then I decided to go big, 'movable' 4x8' coop and 14x50' covered run. Takes awhile to move the posts and fence, but I don't have to move it very often.
Could you imagine paying $400 for a couple chickens and a little tractor, pay for they feed also for a few months. Don't remember what the payoff was on the rent to own...Lol.

 

[bnjrob]

I saw this last yr looking for ideas for a tractor. Then I decided to go big, 'movable' 4x8' coop and 14x50' covered run. Takes awhile to move the posts and fence, but I don't have to move it very often.
Could you imagine paying $400 for a couple chickens and a little tractor, pay for they feed also for a few months. Don't remember what the payoff was on the rent to own...Lol.

You can't make money off of well built poultry houses unless they are priced at what I consider to be outrageous. But then I know how to do many things myself so paying someone to do what I can do is hard for me anyway. For people that have no idea how to build things, spending the money to get a well built house is the way to go.

 

[3riverschick]

Or... go to craigslist and get a cheap used shed. Remodel to desired specs. Much cheaper than these crazy designer prices.
Best,
Karen

 

[Beer can]

I luckily had left over material from garage build and gutting a couple rooms in our house to build my small 4x8 coop. Roofed it with metal siding from a old swimming pool I was going to take to recycler for scrap metal $.
I would like to have a second one, but the cost of plywood, lumber, it would be cheaper to buy a metal 10x10 shed from home depot.