BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Kassaundra]

Well ya I never do want to kill an animal I will be the one swerving to save a squirrel or a bird about to hit my windshield heck I was the one asking if the deer was ok after he got hit by a motorcycle in the paper but then it said the deer was dead but that doesn't mean it wasn't left to suffer along he road I am not the only animal person as my paps friend there was a bird laying on the side of the road suffering he took the bird to the vet i think it was ok but I don't know what I would do I a situation like that Except put it out of its misery as much as I hate to it is what would be best the only animal I have ever killed was an accident I was putting there feeder in there pen and one of the chickens stepped infront of me and I stepped on her she was one of my favorites but things happen and u learn from ur mistakes I am 5.5 tall and I wear 10.5 size men's shoes so my clodhoppers must have stepped on her may she rest in peace

Looks like my response post is not ness. now.

 

[varidgerunner]

Here is my first brood of the season. These are some mixture of BLR Wyandotte and Dorking with maybe a little BO and redstar thrown in. The hen is a grade asil raised feral, hatched last August. She picked out a vacant dog house, excellent spot, caught the chicks in the kennel with the dog next door, who had to have some chicken breaking done last year, she was watching them with her head cocked sideways like they were the neatest thing. Unfortunately, the poor hen would have a few more if yours truly had had his stuff together, and dumped all of the chick drowning water receptacles on that side of the place. I have them dumped and flipped or stepping stones in them now, so her sisters should have better luck with their broods.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

So this hen adopted these chicks? They will certainly be interesting once they have grown up, with that blend of breeds.

 

[varidgerunner]

She adopted the eggs, not really voluntarily. I watch all the good nesting spots, and when I see a hen getting pretty tight to her eggs, I go out at night and switch out eggs, give her partially incubated clutch to the pigs, and put something worthwhile under her. These will be next years layers, and of course the males will be eaten. They usually shun most of the feed I put out, I saw her digging worms out near a scrap lumber pile earlier. I only hatch a limited number of pure games, using extras to raise more practical chickens. The straight game chicks have way better survival though. These hens will loose a few in various mishaps, but it's not like I have a ton invested in them.

 

[Mini Meat]

She adopted the eggs, not really voluntarily. I watch all the good nesting spots, and when I see a hen getting pretty tight to her eggs, I go out at night and switch out eggs, give her partially incubated clutch to the pigs, and put something worthwhile under her. These will be next years layers, and of course the males will be eaten. They usually shun most of the feed I put out, I saw her digging worms out near a scrap lumber pile earlier. I only hatch a limited number of pure games, using extras to raise more practical chickens. The straight game chicks have way better survival though. These hens will loose a few in various mishaps, but it's not like I have a ton invested in them.

A question for you.

I see my DC's wanting to be broodies, and wanting to be good foragers, but I feel like it can be done better.

Would raising pure DC's under and Asil help to improve the instingcs that are there, but not quite polished?

I'm guessing it could only help.

 

[varidgerunner]

A question for you.

I see my DC's wanting to be broodies, and wanting to be good foragers, but I feel like it can be done better.

Would raising pure DC's under and Asil help to improve the instingcs that are there, but not quite polished?

I'm guessing it could only help.

In my opinion, it is not something that can be taught. It's like sending somebody with no musical abilities to singing lessons, they will have better projection when they sing off key and out of time. Or sending someone with chronically poor reflexes to baseball camp. They will know how to stand the right way when they miss the ball.

In most breeds of chickens, the brooding instinct has been selected away from for a very long time. Chickens that are truly broody don't lay many eggs once the weather warms up enough for them to start feeling broody. There is a fine line between too cold for them to even lay eggs and too warm for them to lay without going broody. Needless to say, egg production would be difficult, and even raising any kind of numbers of meat birds would be difficult with a bird that lays twelve and turns off and sets. When I have attempted to break these birds out of being broody, by putting them in a wire bottom cage, they will do one of two things. They will either turn off egg production and pace the cage until they are released, at which point they will go find the nearest eggs or round rocks, and set them, or in many cases, they will smear some poop on the bottom of the cage pull out a few feathers, pop out an egg and set on it. Watch your fingers trying to get those eggs.

Because of the nature of the Asil, as handed down from Asil keepers of old, these birds don't lend themselves well to artificial incubation. Without a hen to keep the peace, the chicks might seriously harm each other. So, they have been hen reared for a very long time. Hens that wouldn't brood, probably weren't kept, as it's not like you could take a bunch of unfamiliar hens and house them together and pool the eggs under ones that did go broody.

In my opinion, the only way Asil could be used to improve brooding ability would be through a genetic contribution. Obviously you would have to breed it in and then breed it back out trying to keep only the traits you wanted, could be a crap shoot. The above hen is half American Game, they tend for the hens to get along with each other a lot better, but still have enough asil in them to not fly off into the dark when you slip eggs under them, if you talk to them a little. They are the ones that I usually let run loose and raise chicks wherever.

 

[Beekissed]

As for foraging, I think most any chicken can be taught to be a good forager if they are out on range early in their lives~mine are out there by the second week~and the more so if they have a mother to teach them....but even without that, if they are taught to look to foraging as their first and most ready meal instead of an always full feeder, they will forage more readily.

I have had adult birds arrive here that pick up on it pretty quickly and then some that never really forage to full effect, but are the first to the feeder and the last to leave it. I think it's mostly what they are used to early on in life that molds their natural instinct when it comes to foraging.

Having said that, I've had a few breeds that, even when out on range at an early age and not fed until evening, are still pretty crappy foragers. The sex link birds all seem pretty slow in that regard, as are most of the BOs and EEs I've had in the past.

 

[Mini Meat]

@varidgerunner I do get what you are saying, I actually I don't so much dislike incubating. I very much dislike brooding. I feel that chicks raised by a hen are physically, mentally and emotionally better off. Plus, it's a pain. Anything I can do to minimize the need...

To continue your analogy, I see it more as (when speaking of DC's) having a woman who has some natural singing talent with a daughter with the same talent. Instead of getting singing lessons from the mother she gets her singing lessons from a Broadway star. That would have to produce a better result no?

The part about tying up 2 hens for 1 clutch would be a down side and I had considered that. I have had good luck breaking average brooders by dunking them in very cold water and holding them in till they are chilled but you have to catch 'em early. I would not be opposed to timing incubation to a broody and slipping her a handful of extra chick at hatching time. If that even works heard about it, never tried it.

@Beekissed I agree, I was not able to start this until they were out of the electro net, because of the intentional high manure load, but now that my birds free range they never see the feed put out, Before I let them out I scatter their feed in the wood chips and anywhere I want them to put in a days work. I want to adapt my birds to my plans not the other way around. And my chickens are meant to be tools as well.

You'll will have to forgive my musings but I am not one to take "conventional wisdom" at face value. I am always examining alternative ways for ideas that will fit with my program.

Better living through chemistry has caused as many or more problems than it solved. I am seeking better living through biology.
I very much want to develop systems on my farm that work with nature, not against it. I am willing to take some set backs to do so. I even have some crazy ideas for my breeding pens lol.
I'll share those when I start the thread.

 

[varidgerunner]

On the foraging, I believe that that can be learned by all, but some will take it to greater lengths than others.

When I started out with the first games I had, I got some from Cackle, just to see if that was something I really wanted. It was obvious that they are not quite the same as some of the pure strains from breeders. A little heavy here, a little white in an earlobe there, and a few more eggs than normal, but I will say that once they went broody, they were pretty decent broodies, far better than anything I had experienced until that time. They were undoubtedly hatched in an incubator and shipped and I raised them with a bunch of "regular" chickens. (until they hit four or five months) I had what they call Old English. (probably more American in them) They have Asils, I'm sure they are graded with a tiny bit of something else, or they would have to have a bunch of them to ensure supply of hatching eggs. I'm sure they are probably fair broodies. They are fairly pricey as far as hatchery birds go, but not too far out of line for what you might expect to pay for a bird that is fairly rare and with the challenges in raising that they have.

The biggest downside is that you have to keep the adult breeders penned, or have a lot of room, but if there ever was a bird that was easy to keep in singles or pairs in a pen, they are it. (Friendly and laid back.) For my semi-feral broodies, I like the ones with American in them, they are more cold hardy and they just find a tree somewhere and blow around on a limb all winter and then start making nests come spring. Pure asils need some major wind blocking in the winter because of their hard feathers. But the tight comb and wattles helps.

 

[NanaKat]

It's been over a week now and my injured little cockerel has been healing very well and has grown extremely attached to me (and vice versa). My only concern is the spot on top of his beak. I think the rooster(s) that attacked him actually broke the beak there. I tried re-integrating him with his old flock, but that spot on top of his beak drew everyone's attention and within minutes it was bleeding profusely again. If it doesn't heal, I honestly don't know where I'll house him. And for any fellow "Walking Dead" fans out there....I named him Carl. :cool And here's the spot on his beak that concerns me. I'm really hoping that with a little more time it will close up and heal properly.

We used cosmetic nail granule and super nail glue to fix a cow's split hoof....should work on the chicks beak since it grows like a fingernail.

The part about tying up 2 hens for 1 clutch would be a down side and I had considered that. I have had good luck breaking average brooders by dunking them in very cold water and holding them in till they are chilled but you have to catch 'em early. I would not be opposed to timing incubation to a broody and slipping her a handful of extra chick at hatching time. If that even works heard about it, never tried it.

Yes it works. I've even added week old chicks to a broody hen with newly hatched chicks....kept them caged together for 3 - 4 days for them to bond and learn the hen's language.