BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[omalicha]

I think brining in salt water is really good for drawing blood out. I do it for any home butchered animal. I don't know about tenderizing it. It should be cooled completely before freezing to let the muscles relax. I like to dump the meat in a cooler with a bag of ice dumped in. This is good for version and  wild pig. I cook most meats in a crockpot which is good for tenderizing meat. If I suspect meat will be tough I will start it the night before on low heat.

Incidentally, I thaw my Turkeys in a ice of cold water. I start a few days before cooking. Doesn't take up a lot of space in the refrigerator this way. If I was going to brine I would just add salt to the water.

Please explain in detail what u mean and why the salt and water .thanks a lot

 

[ejcrist]

I'm planning to finish building my multi-bay breeding coop with attached runs by around mid-late October this year. Breeding birds is totally new to me but I'd like to get started with my BR rooster and 4-5 best laying hens as soon as possible after construction is complete. Is there any particular time of year that's best to breed? I live just north of Phoenix, AZ at about 2,000' elevation so it gets mighty hot and dry in June-July so I'm thinking that's a good time of the year to avoid. I'd kinda like to start around December-January when my pullets will turn into hens but I'm wondering if they won't be much in the laying mood due to the shorter days, and if that would have any negative impact on breeding in general. Another thing I'm unsure of is about determining which hens are best to breed for egg-laying production. I'm in the middle of reading The Call of the Hen, and plan on using the measurements Walter Hogan talked about in determining which gals have the best potential. I read that it's best to take these measurements after the hens are 1 year old and during the laying period of the year, so if I do that I'll have to wait until say around May, but then I'd be hatching eggs during the hottest part of the year which I don't think is a good idea. Anyway, if anyone has any experience or opinions as to the best time of year to measure/evaluate your hens and timing of when best to breed I'm all ears.

 

[bnjrob]

I'm planning to finish building my multi-bay breeding coop with attached runs by around mid-late October this year. Breeding birds is totally new to me but I'd like to get started with my BR rooster and 4-5 best laying hens as soon as possible after construction is complete. Is there any particular time of year that's best to breed? I live just north of Phoenix, AZ at about 2,000' elevation so it gets mighty hot and dry in June-July so I'm thinking that's a good time of the year to avoid. I'd kinda like to start around December-January when my pullets will turn into hens but I'm wondering if they won't be much in the laying mood due to the shorter days, and if that would have any negative impact on breeding in general. Another thing I'm unsure of is about determining which hens are best to breed for egg-laying production. I'm in the middle of reading The Call of the Hen, and plan on using the measurements Walter Hogan talked about in determining which gals have the best potential. I read that it's best to take these measurements after the hens are 1 year old and during the laying period of the year, so if I do that I'll have to wait until say around May, but then I'd be hatching eggs during the hottest part of the year which I don't think is a good idea. Anyway, if anyone has any experience or opinions as to the best time of year to measure/evaluate your hens and timing of when best to breed I'm all ears.

I find it's better to try to get chicks hatched and started growing before the middle of May. Otherwise they don't eat as much because it's too hot for sure by the end of May in Texas and that cuts into their growth.

When the chickens cooperate, I try to start hatching in January but sometimes the hens just won't lay enough eggs for me to do that and I don't like to have to resort to dragging several hundred feet of extension cord out to the pasture to run a light. But that is always an option if you really want to get hatching sooner. And the males need the light too, not just the females. It's supposed to be best for fertility to start giving them the extra artificial light about a month before you anticipate collecting eggs.

I don't wait until all females are a year or older before I start examining them. With our slow growing, old fashioned birds, if I did that, I would never get to cull anything. Because I've got a few years into this, I have things that I can look for to cull earlier if I need to, so along with those other factors, I often start examining for pelvic width, etc. when they are about 5-6 months old. Which is when my flock generally starts to lay. And there are usually a few pullets that are too small in the measurements and pinch tailed that I can weed out before I make final decisions on breeders.

My birds can still continue maturing and change up until they are about 2, so when possible, I try to use birds that are 2-3 years old for mating - that way I know better what I'm getting with them. You'll have to see what your flock does before you can get an idea of whether or not you can get away with using 1 year old or younger birds for breeding to see the results that you're looking for.

 

[ejcrist]

I find it's better to try to get chicks hatched and started growing before the middle of May. Otherwise they don't eat as much because it's too hot for sure by the end of May in Texas and that cuts into their growth.

When the chickens cooperate, I try to start hatching in January but sometimes the hens just won't lay enough eggs for me to do that and I don't like to have to resort to dragging several hundred feet of extension cord out to the pasture to run a light. But that is always an option if you really want to get hatching sooner. And the males need the light too, not just the females. It's supposed to be best for fertility to start giving them the extra artificial light about a month before you anticipate collecting eggs.

I don't wait until all females are a year or older before I start examining them. With our slow growing, old fashioned birds, if I did that, I would never get to cull anything. Because I've got a few years into this, I have things that I can look for to cull earlier if I need to, so along with those other factors, I often start examining for pelvic width, etc. when they are about 5-6 months old. Which is when my flock generally starts to lay. And there are usually a few pullets that are too small in the measurements and pinch tailed that I can weed out before I make final decisions on breeders.

My birds can still continue maturing and change up until they are about 2, so when possible, I try to use birds that are 2-3 years old for mating - that way I know better what I'm getting with them. You'll have to see what your flock does before you can get an idea of whether or not you can get away with using 1 year old or younger birds for breeding to see the results that you're looking for.

Thanks bnjrob - that's exactly the information I'm looking for! We have very similar issues with the heat of summer so we're in the same boat. I never thought of putting a light out there but I believe that would work. Or another thing we could do is breed them around September-October or so, that way we'd have a little better conditions for both laying and growing the chicks. I like the idea of examining while they're pullets and culling a few because you're right on the money that we'd never cull anything if we didn't - that's another thing I was thinking. I suppose we wouldn't need to consider fixed measurements for deciding to cull but rather relative to a standard bird in our flocks of the particular breed and age. I believe if done while they're laying, even though they're pullets, should be ok for determining who gets culled early. I'm guessing if one bird has say three finger width between pelvic arch and end of keel while most of the others have four or five then it's likely that same bird will be lag the others in year two.

Ok, yeah that helps quite a bit. Thanks again for the info - I feel a lot better now.

 

[DesertChic]

Thanks bnjrob - that's exactly the information I'm looking for! We have very similar issues with the heat of summer so we're in the same boat. I never thought of putting a light out there but I believe that would work. Or another thing we could do is breed them around September-October or so, that way we'd have a little better conditions for both laying and growing the chicks. I like the idea of examining while they're pullets and culling a few because you're right on the money that we'd never cull anything if we didn't - that's another thing I was thinking. I suppose we wouldn't need to consider fixed measurements for deciding to cull but rather relative to a standard bird in our flocks of the particular breed and age. I believe if done while they're laying, even though they're pullets, should be ok for determining who gets culled early. I'm guessing if one bird has say three finger width between pelvic arch and end of keel while most of the others have four or five then it's likely that same bird will be lag the others in year two.

Ok, yeah that helps quite a bit. Thanks again for the info - I feel a lot better now.

@bnjrob gave great advice and most definitely knows a lot more than I do about selecting birds for breeding and culling. Thank you, @bnjrob ! I'm copying/pasting your comments in my 'great big book of everything chicken'.

Since I live only a little south from you, I would just like to emphasize that you really want to avoid hatching in the hottest months around here. I've encountered a number of issues with egg fertility in the summer months that I never experience during other times of the year, and I have a theory that their summer molt has something to do with it. Also, maintaining proper temperature and humidity in even the best incubators seems more challenging during monsoon season. I keep my incubator in the house in a climate controlled environment, but still have had repeated issues with summer hatches. And broody hens really struggle with their clutch in the summer. I know of a few people who's broody hens and chicks died from the heat.

I've now hatched every season here in AZ and two of my best hatches were in October, which ironically also resulted in some of my best growth rates. I did one hatch in January that resulted in a good hatch rate, but really slow growth rates. My March hatch results were dramatically improved by comparison.

Since "green" is so hard to come by around here most of the year, you may want to consider getting a small sprouting setup for supplemental feeding for your breeders. They're really inexpensive and easy to use and don't take up much space. I typically sprout sunflower, alfalfa, radish, wheat grass and broccoli sprouts during the cooler months along with growing kale in my garden for the chickens. They very much appreciate the nutrient rich "treats" and I've gotten better egg production from them as a result.

 

[bluejean55girl]

 
Thanks bnjrob - that's exactly the information I'm looking for! We have very similar issues with the heat of summer so we're in the same boat. I never thought of putting a light out there but I believe that would work. Or another thing we could do is breed them around September-October or so, that way we'd have a little better conditions for both laying and growing the chicks. I like the idea of examining while they're pullets and culling a few because you're right on the money that we'd never cull anything if we didn't - that's another thing I was thinking. I suppose we wouldn't need to consider fixed measurements for deciding to cull but rather relative to a standard bird in our flocks of the particular breed and age. I believe if done while they're laying, even though they're pullets, should be ok for determining who gets culled early. I'm guessing if one bird has say three finger width between pelvic arch and end of keel while most of the others have four or five then it's likely that same bird will be lag the others in year two.

Ok, yeah that helps quite a bit. Thanks again for the info - I feel a lot better now.    

@bnjrob
  gave great advice and most definitely knows a lot more than I do about selecting birds for breeding and culling. Thank you, @bnjrob
! I'm copying/pasting your comments in my 'great big book of everything chicken'. 

Since I live only a little south from you, I would just like to emphasize that you really want to avoid hatching in the hottest months around here. I've encountered a number of issues with egg fertility in the summer months that I never experience during other times of the year, and I have a theory that their summer molt has something to do with it. Also, maintaining proper temperature and humidity in even the best incubators seems more challenging during monsoon season. I keep my incubator in the house in a climate controlled environment, but still have had repeated issues with summer hatches. And broody hens really struggle with their clutch in the summer. I know of a few people who's broody hens and chicks died from the heat. 

I've now hatched every season here in AZ and two of my best hatches were in October, which ironically also resulted in some of my best growth rates. I did one hatch in January that resulted in a good hatch rate, but really slow growth rates. My March hatch results were dramatically improved by comparison. 

Since "green" is so hard to come by around here most of the year, you may want to consider getting a small sprouting setup for supplemental feeding for your breeders. They're really inexpensive and easy to use and don't take up much space. I typically sprout sunflower, alfalfa, radish, wheat grass and broccoli sprouts during the cooler months along with growing kale in my garden for the chickens. They very much appreciate the nutrient rich "treats" and I've gotten better egg production from them as a result. 

can you post pictures of your sprouting set up please?

 

[bnjrob]

Thanks bnjrob - that's exactly the information I'm looking for! We have very similar issues with the heat of summer so we're in the same boat. I never thought of putting a light out there but I believe that would work. Or another thing we could do is breed them around September-October or so, that way we'd have a little better conditions for both laying and growing the chicks. I like the idea of examining while they're pullets and culling a few because you're right on the money that we'd never cull anything if we didn't - that's another thing I was thinking. I suppose we wouldn't need to consider fixed measurements for deciding to cull but rather relative to a standard bird in our flocks of the particular breed and age. I believe if done while they're laying, even though they're pullets, should be ok for determining who gets culled early. I'm guessing if one bird has say three finger width between pelvic arch and end of keel while most of the others have four or five then it's likely that same bird will be lag the others in year two.

Ok, yeah that helps quite a bit. Thanks again for the info - I feel a lot better now.

Autumn hatches are a good idea, if your hens cooperate. I've got molting going on from August through September and even into October sometimes, and by the time they recover from that, the days are short and laying just stays down for the mature hens. The pullets will lay, but their eggs are not as large and I don't like breeding from pullets if I can help it - so I get stuck with waiting until Feb/Mar for the chosen breeders to lay enough eggs for me to incubate. I did have one January where we didn't have many overcast days and the mature breeders did better with laying but I can't count on the weather. If I were willing to hatch in really small groups I could do more Autumn and Winter hatching, but it's a pain to have so many small groups separated by 3 weeks of age. And fertility is not always great with molting going on.

Plus as DesertChic mentioned, fertility in Summer often sucks - whether it's the heat or the molt, I don't know, but it tends to be poor that time of year. Here in TX, we are often still 90* or better through October and 80s through Thanksgiving with wide temperature swings all through winter.

I can get 4 finger pelvic width pullets, some 3, and occasionally 2 fingers which are definite culls. My pullets with the widest pelvic measurement are always ones that appear widest all the way from shoulder to tail when I look at them from above. Culling them earlier, I may wind up culling potential larger egg layers, but for me, medium eggs are ok, so if I happen to cull a bird that MIGHT have laid a large or extra large egg if given a chance to completely mature, I don't have a cow. I'm looking for overall best in a number of different areas, and since I don't have tons of birds getting egg bound like some people do, my current system works for our needs.

 

[DesertChic]

can you post pictures of your sprouting set up please?

I don't have it set up right now because our monsoon rains have given us plenty of fodder for the chickens, but this is the one I use:

https://www.amazon.com/VICTORIO-VKP...&qid=1472325901&sr=8-2&keywords=seed+sprouter

 

[bluejean55girl]

can you post pictures of your sprouting set up please?

I don't have it set up right now because our monsoon rains have given us plenty of fodder for the chickens, but this is the one I use:

https://www.amazon.com/VICTORIO-VKP1014-Four-Tray-Kitchen-Sprouter/dp/B005FVPP04/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472325901&sr=8-2&keywords=seed+sprouter

and you know this next question is coming?

Where do you get your seeds for this? And what do the chickens tend to prefer to eat that works well with this? Grins

 

[bluejean55girl]

can you post pictures of your sprouting set up please?

I don't have it set up right now because our monsoon rains have given us plenty of fodder for the chickens, but this is the one I use:

https://www.amazon.com/VICTORIO-VKP1014-Four-Tray-Kitchen-Sprouter/dp/B005FVPP04/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472325901&sr=8-2&keywords=seed+sprouter

and you know this next question is coming?

Where do you get your seeds for this? And what do the chickens tend to prefer to eat that works well with this? Grins

growing fodder for chickens, is the thread where I should start. Lol