BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[CanadianBuckeye]

That is basically what I need to know is cutting the bones off at the joint ness. my gut says it is. I don't even know if I can see things well enough to do that. IF infection has already set in it is likely a moot point anyway

I can't see how exposed bone would not get infected. If you can remove the bones at the "elbow" he might have a chance. Maybe if you put the wing on ice, it would be less painful for him while you did the operation? If it's not possible to find the elbow and disarticulate the bones, perhaps if you just cut them flush with the skin that would still be better than leaving the bones sticking out?

 

[Fluffyserama]

I can't see how exposed bone would not get infected. If you can remove the bones at the "elbow" he might have a chance. Maybe if you put the wing on ice, it would be less painful for him while you did the operation? If it's not possible to find the elbow and disarticulate the bones, perhaps if you just cut them flush with the skin that would still be better than leaving the bones sticking out?

I was about to post this same picture and say the same thing. I did this operation with a 2 week old chick my cat had gotten a hold of. The trick is to, apply a rubber band as a tourniquet just below the elbow then feel for the joint and get a clean cut through it without nicking bone. That can be easier said than done with a struggling chicken. I recommend having a second pair of hands for this. I cauterized with a car cigarette lighter then removed the rubber band. I think I remember using a triple antibiotic ointment then blue kote. but Its all kinda a blur in my memory.
If this is going to be a meat bird I recommend culling, and saving time/ heart ache and feed for a bird that if it survives will not put on the same weight as siblings because of stress and healing. The bird I operated on was my nieces pet chick and I felt super guilty, so I figured I had to go above and beyond. My chick survived but became the runt of the flock.

 

[Kassaundra]

Thanks for the responses, I will likely just cull. This chick was destined for the freezer and has nothing exceptional to keep it out of the freezer.

 

[3riverschick]

I'm fascinated by epigenetics research, I've always thought that Darwin's view of evolution did not explain everything.......... looks like Lamarck may get the last laugh

Funny, one of the articles was discussing Lamarck and how he might have been right too. After reading some of those new "in ovo" cites, I am beginning to realize why everyone is injecting all kinds of different things into the fluids of the incubating egg.
Ok, so in humans there only about 1% of all the places for inheritance to take place are potential targets for epigenetic influence. They are called "epigenetic tags". Then, of them, only a few of them are possible sites for transgenerational epigenetic effect. ( can be passed down from parent to child). So I *think* folk are injecting all kinds of things in all kinds of viscolisty and dilution strengths into the egg fluids to try and find ( not only the positive effects for one generation) but these few transgenerational sites as well. True, it is a great thing if we can find a help for one generation. But how much more help woud it be to the poultry industry if they could find transgeneration effects in addition?
And if we can learn from their work, perhaps we can put their successes together on a smaller scale to the advantage of our heritage fowl. That is what I am trying to learn with this research.
Best,
Karen epigenetics nutrigenomics

 

[Beer can]

Hey there- been wanting to pressure cook an old rooster for awhile. Can you give me specifics on how you did it? I have read conflicting reports about how to pressure cook an old bird and the results... I am guessing you cooked on 15 lb pressure for 15 minutes total? How much liquid did you put in the pot? Just a few inches or covered the bird?

Thanks so much!

Not sure of pressure, just a Presto 4qt cooker, no gauge like our canner, just the weight. Old one, 70s maybe? Got it at a yard sale for $5 yrs ago brand new in the original box.
There is a few ways to do it, could have seared the bird first in oil (and season if eating as is) then added the water and cooked. This one I shredded into a frying pan with seasoning for fajitas, would have benefited from a sear, didn't give it a thought usually when I pressure cook it's for soup or stew.
Very, VERY easy to over do them, I've had some fails, pop the top and it's disintegrated meat soup drownded in little bones, slow cooker/crock pot works good also on old birds but takes many hrs longer but you can see the progress and catch it at the perfect time, can't see in that pressure cooker. Trial and error, think I got the old tough bird timing right now.

I add only a few inches of water, 15 minutes for a 2-3lb bird, 5 or so I'd probably go twenty, old shoe leather rooster probably 25min, maybe 15-20 and let it cool down on it's own.. There is carry over time if you let the cooker cool down before opening, takes awhile before it cools enough that the pressure is off. Sometimes I wait, sometimes I use a towel and pop the weight off (if you do be careful, oven mitt or towel and pull straight up, leave the towel on cooker, spouse gets real MAD if it spurts like a whale and spits crap on the hood or ceiling LOL!). This one could have used the carry over time, leg meat was a little course even though it was coming off the bone, razor sharp fillet knife had a little trouble dicing it up, breast was fine. With the heat off carry over time if over done at least it isn't hopping, stirring up, you can still save it just have to be more careful taking it out, will still be whole until you try taking it out.
What I usually do for soup or stew is cook with a few inches of water, maybe a quart, steam escapes but the bird adds, remove the meat and refrigerate, re-add the bones and whats left of meat on them back to cooker, and more water to how much broth you want, sometimes I add some chopped celery, onions, and carrot, if I have them, re-pressure cook for another 15 minutes, strain, cool in refrigerator, fat goes to the top, skim it off, broth will be like jelly. Toss the meat in a pot with the broth jelly that turns to liquid as soon as the heat hits it, diced carrots taters and onions, or diced carrots and onions and then egg noodles, awesomeness!

I was super proud when our oldest dd said after actually eating my cooking which she usually doesn't, "you make the best chicken soup, why doesn't moms taste like this?" Lol! she doesn't make homemade with good ole tasty chickens....

 

[3riverschick]

Review
Epigenetics and transgenerational transfer: a physiological perspective
D. H. Ho, W. W. Burggren
Journal of Experimental Biology 2010 213: 3-16; doi: 10.1242/jeb.019752
http://jeb.biologists.org/content/213/1/3
Oh this is just massive. I could spend weeks ( maybe months) trying to figure
all this out and then would have to go ask an expert, LOL.

Linköping Studies in Science and Technology Dissertation No. 1383 ( in 2011)
Heritable epigenetic responses to environmental challenges
Effects on behaviour, gene expression and DNA-methylation in the chicken
Daniel Nätt
http://liu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:436067/FULLTEXT01.pdf
excerpt:
"Conclusively, parental exposure of environmental challenges that introduce changes in behaviour, physiology and gene expression can under both chronic and temporal conditions be heritably programmed in the parent and transmitted to the unexposed offspring. Since heritable epigenetic variation between wild type and domesticated chickens is stable and numerous, it is possible that selection for favourable epigenomes could add another level to the evolutionary processes and therefore might explain some of the rapid changes in the history of the domesticated chicken."


Development of Digestive Function in Neonatal Poultry:
Physiological Limitations and Potential
By V. Ravindran
https://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/apss/documents/2003/APSS2003-ravindran-pp1-7.pdf
Here's a nice little article from Australia in 2003. The 1st 4 paragraphs of section 2
are riveting. Look at all that goes on for 3 weeks.! Esp. Concerned about the height of
the villi, depth of crypts, and proper mucosa.
Karen epigenetics nutrigenomics

 

[Maeschak]

Not sure of pressure, just a Presto 4qt cooker, no gauge like our canner, just the weight. Old one, 70s maybe? Got it at a yard sale for $5 yrs ago brand new in the original box.
There is a few ways to do it, could have seared the bird first in oil (and season if eating as is) then added the water and cooked. This one I shredded into a frying pan with seasoning for fajitas, would have benefited from a sear, didn't give it a thought usually when I pressure cook it's for soup or stew.
Very, VERY easy to over do them, I've had some fails, pop the top and it's disintegrated meat soup drownded in little bones, slow cooker/crock pot works good also on old birds but takes many hrs longer but you can see the progress and catch it at the perfect time, can't see in that pressure cooker. Trial and error, think I got the old tough bird timing right now.

I add only a few inches of water, 15 minutes for a 2-3lb bird, 5 or so I'd probably go twenty, old shoe leather rooster probably 25min, maybe 15-20 and let it cool down on it's own.. There is carry over time if you let the cooker cool down before opening, takes awhile before it cools enough that the pressure is off. Sometimes I wait, sometimes I use a towel and pop the weight off (if you do be careful, oven mitt or towel and pull straight up, leave the towel on cooker, spouse gets real MAD if it spurts like a whale and spits crap on the hood or ceiling LOL!). This one could have used the carry over time, leg meat was a little course even though it was coming off the bone, razor sharp fillet knife had a little trouble dicing it up, breast was fine. With the heat off carry over time if over done at least it isn't hopping, stirring up, you can still save it just have to be more careful taking it out, will still be whole until you try taking it out.
What I usually do for soup or stew is cook with a few inches of water, maybe a quart, steam escapes but the bird adds, remove the meat and refrigerate, re-add the bones and whats left of meat on them back to cooker, and more water to how much broth you want, sometimes I add some chopped celery, onions, and carrot, if I have them, re-pressure cook for another 15 minutes, strain, cool in refrigerator, fat goes to the top, skim it off, broth will be like jelly. Toss the meat in a pot with the broth jelly that turns to liquid as soon as the heat hits it, diced carrots taters and onions, or diced carrots and onions and then egg noodles, awesomeness!

I was super proud when our oldest dd said after actually eating my cooking which she usually doesn't, "you make the best chicken soup, why doesn't moms taste like this?" Lol! she doesn't make homemade with good ole tasty chickens....

Awesome, this is exactly what I have been looking for! Can't wait to try it out~ Thanks so much!

 

[Beer can]

What does a pressure cooked chicken taste like? (Please don't say it tastes like chicken

) By that, I mean....... does it taste like chicken that's in chicken soup? Or more like a roast?
Did you brine first?
@Beer can please share all the details! I have a pressure cooker, it's only been used to cook beans........ and even then they turn out tough....... :-(

Taste like chicken

Just cooks 10x faster with way less energy. Picture a chicken in a crock pot, or a chicken baked with some water in the pan covered in aluminum foil. Would take a long long time longer but about the same. No need to brine or rest, meat will literally pull off the bones leaving the bones squeaky clean.
What kind of beans were you cooking? Dry beans can't be pressure cooked, still need soak time. I've canned green dilly beans before from beans that should have been picked earlier, turned out tough and stringy, yuck. Done right I usually just cold pack dilly beans.

 

[Beer can]

Awesome, this is exactly what I have been looking for! Can't wait to try it out~ Thanks so much!

Forgot to add, I put the burner on high just until the weight starts dancing, then down on low, might have to turn it up a little, just to keep the weight dancing. That's where the energy savings comes in, takes very little heat once it's up to pressure. We should use ours more, would save $$, can cook about anything in them. I prefer meat fried or grilled, if we just cooked potatoes in it rather than boil I bet the $$ savings would add up over time. I do use it for tougher cuts of venison occasionally, neck roast.

 

[lpatelski]

That is basically what I need to know is cutting the bones off at the joint ness. my gut says it is. I don't even know if I can see things well enough to do that. IF infection has already set in it is likely a moot point anyway

What ever you do make sure you push the skin back to leave plenty to go over the end of the joint/bone. You will need an extra 1/4 to 1/2 inch.