BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[3riverschick]

Emily at Trunorth heritage Hatchery
Has a good article on separating the sexes in her blog on her website. Really educational.
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Hi
I've been reading poultrytimes.com . there's a really interesting article on " defining organic " . it was written on March 3rd 2017 . after reading it I do not think I will be buying certified organic or USDA organic because I don't like the way they're raised.
HTTP://www.poultrytimes.com. Page 20

 

[3riverschick]

Six inches of roost space for each broiler?!? Who thought that up? How do you spell crooked keel? Oh, I know, " negative cash flow". No vitamins, hormones or supplements in feed or water!!! 50 percent of outdoor area must be vegatation? Do they even know how fast the birds will demolish that?
And how about 1 sq. Ft. Inside for every 5 lbs. Of bird? And 1sq. Ft. Outside for every 2.25lbs. of bird.

 

[bnjrob]

Hi
I've been reading poultrytimes.com . there's a really interesting article on " defining organic " . it was written on March 3rd 2017 . after reading it I do not think I will be buying certified organic or USDA organic because I don't like the way they're raised.
HTTP://www.poultrytimes.com. Page 20

That organic label is not all it's cracked up to be. And it costs a small fortune to be able to put an *organic* label on a product. There's a lot of politics and baloney involved with being able to use the *organic* labeling. People who have access to farmer's markets with local farmers that can provide food and even live animal stock, are better off buying there, than buying things at a store with the government approved organic label on things.

 

[3riverschick]

I guess you have got something there
I'm going to put supplements in my birds feed and water if I want to .

and if their bedding qualifies as roughage I'm not going to worry about it meeting their feed requirements also. that's just silly .
and the roost thing? that's just blows my mind !! really , who puts Broilers on roosts ? really ? That's just silly . It's the government.

 

[bnjrob]

I guess you have got something there
I'm going to put supplements in my birds feed and water if I want to .

and if their bedding qualifies as roughage I'm not going to worry about it meeting their feed requirements also. that's just silly .
and the roost thing? that's just blows my mind !! really , who puts Broilers on roosts ? really ? That's just silly . It's the government.

As if the government really knows what is best for raising birds. I think that the organic labeling gives people the idea that the food they are eating is raised the same way that you and I raise things - it isn't. It's mostly only the largest farmers that can afford the high fees that the government charges to be able to add that *organic* name to the labeling. And those farmers not only have to abide by the rules that are set in place by the government, but they also are going to raise their products differently than the small family farmer that sells at a roadside stand - because they need to make a higher profit margin to stay in business even if they don't work with the big corporate manufacturers. It's pretty eye opening to read all the nitpicky little rules they come up with for organic famers to follow. Sometimes I think some of it is done simply to make it difficult to be an organic farmer - as a way of getting rid of some of the competition that organic farmers give to Big Ag. Big Ag money is responsible for so many idiotic regulations as a way to try to protect their profits from the small growers competition.

I understand why the government got involved with food safety back at the turn of the 20th century. You know things are bad with adulterated products when they published articles and even whole books on the subject of telling people how they could recognize if their food had been adulterated with poisons, non-food items, or lower quality food products. But these days, the government involvement in our food supply has been more of a way to make Big Business filthy rich and to control the population. If you control the food, most people will do whatever you want them to do.

 

[DesertChic]

I've been told by experienced breeders that I should keep the cocks separated from the hens unless I'm in the process of breeding them, and I hate to say it but I think as a general rule they're right. I do think it mostly depends on the cock bird though. But like in the case of my layers, which I'm not too concerned about since they're not in it to win any beauty contests, it's not just the gals that go through the mill but my rooster Hoss too. For whatever reason the gals can't stand to see sickle and hackle feathers on him and constantly pull 'em out. And then he's left with little nubs on his butt and neck that I thought at first were some kind of bugs but upon closer inspection I realized they were the roots of his pin feathers. Well, I guess the girls think they're bugs too because they're constantly picking at them and so no feathers get a chance to grow. So I guess it goes both ways. At any rate I'm definitely going to separate him tomorrow so they can all heal up and hopefully get back to looking reasonable instead of like some homeless chickens standing on a street corner.

I've been told the same thing, but I do value my two eldest roosters free-ranging with the hens as they've provided outstanding protection against predators. Those two boys get along exceptionally well even though they weren't hatched and reared together and are different breeds and they work in tandem to hurry all the girls to safety. Even though they favor some of the same hens, they rarely squabble over them, and I typically find one in one area of the yard with a group of hens and the other at the opposite end with another group of hens....and from time to time the boys will be side by side, peacefully watching over all the girls together.

The younger cockerels....yeah...they need to be isolated from the girls, They're just too darn randy with all those hormones running amok. I'm working on rearranging my flocks so I can separate those teenage boys from all the girls they just won't leave alone.

 

[katefollot]

I'm new to the world of actually breeding chickens, so I apologize if this is a novice question, but, if the breeder chooses to do so, is there any reason to not cull any roosters that are too rough on the hens? (I'm only asking on this thread as it's the current topic of discussion)

Obviously they need to have some interest in breeding, as if they don't, there's probably something hormonal going on and they may well be infertile anyways. Besides that and space limitations, I can't think of any reason it would be bad to cull according to desirable behavior (as well as conformation, color, body size, etc)?

I only ask because I am very... intolerant of any rough behavior, and intend to only have two separate areas, so I will not be splitting roosters and hens, anyone who is nasty is just going to get culled, and anyone who doesn't meet what I'm aiming for I'll sell, and I just want to make sure that will work effectively and not backfire.


LOVE the original posters mention of Form vs Function, we have this discussion in the horse world, especially in terms of [only] breeding horses that can actually hold up to the performances we are asking of them.

 

[bnjrob]

I'm new to the world of actually breeding chickens, so I apologize if this is a novice question, but, if the breeder chooses to do so, is there any reason to not cull any roosters that are too rough on the hens? (I'm only asking on this thread as it's the current topic of discussion)

Obviously they need to have some interest in breeding, as if they don't, there's probably something hormonal going on and they may well be infertile anyways. Besides that and space limitations, I can't think of any reason it would be bad to cull according to desirable behavior (as well as conformation, color, body size, etc)?

I only ask because I am very... intolerant of any rough behavior, and intend to only have two separate areas, so I will not be splitting roosters and hens, anyone who is nasty is just going to get culled, and anyone who doesn't meet what I'm aiming for I'll sell, and I just want to make sure that will work effectively and not backfire.


LOVE the original posters mention of Form vs Function, we have this discussion in the horse world, especially in terms of [only] breeding horses that can actually hold up to the performances we are asking of them.

What is *rough* to one person may not be *rough* to another. Chicken sex is essentially rape. Yes, the hens will squat, but for the most part, males will force a hen down to be mated and they will try to force a mating even if the hen changes her mind after she squats willingly. This is unlike mating between turkeys. If the turkey hen doesn't want to be mated, the tom turkey had just best back off - turkeys have much more consensual sex than chickens. A hen can still get a bare back and head and a bloodied comb even with roosters that really aren't *rough*. There are hens that will fight tooth and nail to avoid being mated, and if there is a more submissive hen, the rooster may choose to not bother with the hens that fight and then they will go to a hen that doesn't fight so much. This can lead to a lot of wear and tear on a hen from too much mating, rather than actually being too rough. Before you cull a male for being too sexually aggressive, you need to be sure that you understand what is *too rough*, and what is a normal part of chicken behavior.

To answer your question - yes there can be a reason not to cull that bird. You may need those cocks that are *rough* because they have other traits you are wanting to breed for, in terms of appearance and production.

If you have a bird that is superior to its peers in several traits, and decide to cull it for one or two undesirable traits, you may shoot yourself in the foot. Because then you've lost those good traits forever and will be stuck breeding birds that weren't as good as the bird you culled. But if you use that bird for breeding rather than culling it immediately, more of those good traits will pass on to the offspring. Not all of the offspring will get the bad trait. So that leaves you with more choices of birds with the good traits and can weed out those that pop up with the undesired trait.

I've bred a human aggressive cock because I needed some of his good traits. Only a few of his offspring showed human aggressiveness and they were culled, allowing me to keep some of his other offspring to continue his good traits within the flock. It's a balancing act when you're doing serious poultry breeding for any kind of specific trait and you have to weigh a lot of things before you do them so you don't screw things up for yourself later on down the road.

 

[Our Roost]

Roosters have a unique job from birth until death. Protect the flock and reproduce. Hereditary traits can come with the breed you select. Meaning that some were bred for game fighting and some bred for other traits. Some breeds carry a bad reputation attached to the roosters. Behavior as you describe to be intolerant is a key reason not to breed more of the same using a bad behavior rooster or hen. Selecting the best of the best takes into account, behavior and attitude as well. You can have the most beautiful rooster in the world, but if he chases you around the barn yard, he is not a keeper in my book. Roosters need to be a good fit to both your hens and yourself. You surely don't want yourself and your hens beat up. It pays to spend time with a rooster from birth on into puberty to judge all his qualities. If he doesn't fair well, its soup stock! Trust that if you breed good behavior, you will be rewarded with mostly good behavior. Good traits transfer as well as bad ones. Your job is to weed out the bad ones. Another point to make, one rooster is usually plenty to service a flock of 10 to 15 birds. There is only one boss in the coop and 2 roosters or even 3 will fight over their harem. Why have unrest in the jest of things. Good luck! Hope this helps.