Breeding Frizzles

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Blisschick, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. Blisschick

    Blisschick not rusty

    Feb 20, 2007
    Shepherd, Texas
    It was asked of me why should you not breed two frizzles? The answer is because a double dose of the frizzle gene produces brittle feathers, can cause less feather follicles to form, and can make for a sad looking bird.

    I have found this out the hard way. [​IMG]

    This is a photo of the worst case scenario. This poor chick has about half the amount as the other chicks her age, and probably won't have many to talk about when she's full grown. I have two others that have the same type of feathers, but aren't as bad as her. The feathers are long, curly, wiry, and tend to lose their vanes, leaving a bare, hard shaft.

    If you want to breed frizzles, always use a smooth feathered bird to mate with. Statistically, half will come out smooth, half frizzled. I only got one smooth from 6 eggs. These chicks are 5 weeks old.



    Her brother from the same hatch. He's nearly completely feathered.


    Last edited: Jan 26, 2008
  2. hcammack

    hcammack Crowing

    Oct 5, 2007
    are you culling her of keeping her ? I think she will be bad when she is older hope I am wrong though.

    Good luck
  3. Blisschick

    Blisschick not rusty

    Feb 20, 2007
    Shepherd, Texas
    I'll probably keep her. She's a little shy, but sweet. If I do, I'd give her to someone who would make her a house chicken.
  4. hcammack

    hcammack Crowing

    Oct 5, 2007
    cool she is pretty in her own special way

  5. fallenweeble

    fallenweeble Songster

    Dec 4, 2007
    bliss, thanks for posting this - it's very good info!
    i was looking at an auction recently with some frizzles who looked "not-so-good" and thinking, "yikes, what happened?"

    and thanks for giving that little gal a chance. she probably would make someone a nice pet!
  6. justusnak

    justusnak Flock Mistress

    Feb 28, 2007
    South Eastern Indiana
    My first experience with frizzles was the same thing. little "Nekkid Nancy" Has finally filled in nicely. She is almost 2 yrs old now..and looks great, except her bare little head. I will try to get pics of her before..and afters. I think I have some loaded somewhere. Good luck with your little nekkid one. Hope after a good few moolts, she fills in nicely.
  7. Anyone interested in frizzles, might enjoy this:
    Hutt's Genetics of the Fowl

    In '05, I got 2 FF / homozygous / frazzled Cochin chicks in my order from IDEAL POULTRY, so I did a good bit of reading to find out what was wrong with the little birds.
    They were pitiful little things [​IMG]

    "Secondary Effects of F.
    Since homozygous frizzles are usually more
    or less naked, except when a new coat of plumage has just been acquired,
    it is to be expected that loss of the normal insulation would cause some
    disturbances of the physiology in such birds. These have been studied in
    detail by Landauer and his associates.
    Metabolism. Benedict, Landauer, and Fox (1932) calculated that
    even at 28CC. the heat production of frizzles was greater than in normal
    fowls. At 170C. the difference was much more pronounced, and in some
    of the homozygous frizzles the heat produced was more than twice that
    of normal fowls. The loss of heat from the body surface in homozygous
    frizzles was partially offset by an abnormally low heat loss from vapori-
    zation of water, the amount of water thus lost being 30 to 35 gin. in 24
    hours per kilogram of body weight, compared with 50 to 56 gin. in normal
    fowls. The rectal temperatures of heterozygous frizzles did not differ
    from ~those of normal fowls, but at environmental temperatures below
    1500. the average rectal temperature for 10 homozygotes was slightly
    lower than in controls. One would naturally expect the homozygous
    frizzle fowls to eat more feed than normal ones in order to compensate
    for their extra heat loss, and some evidence was found that they do so.
    Other Effects. In mature, homozygous frizzles, the heart is larger and
    beats more rapidly than in normal fowls (Boas and Landauer, 1933,
    1934). The difference in females was 72 beats per minute, an increase
    of 27 per cent over the rate for normal fowls. It was attributed to the
    higher rate of metabolism in frizzles. Landauer and Upham (1936) found
    that in homozygous frizzles there was an increase over normal in the rela-
    tive weight of the heart, blood, spleen, kidneys, adrenals, pancreas, crop,
    and gizzard and in the relative capacity of the duodenum, small intes-
    tine, caeca, and large intestine. However, since the normal birds were
    Leghorns and the frizzled ones were not, it is possible that some of these
    differences might be associated with the several physiological traits by
    which Leghorns differ from other breeds (Hutt, 1941) and not caused en-
    tirely by the deficiency of plumage in the frizzled birds. According to
    Landauer and Aberle (1935), the thyroid gland and adrenals of homo-
    zygous frizzles are not normal in structure. The thyroid shows exhaus-
    tion atrophy attributed to overwork in the effort to maintain body tem-
    perature by a higher metabolism.
    Landauer (1932) maintains that the hatchability of eggs laid by
    heterozygous frizzles is subnormal and that it is still lower in eggs from
    homozygotes, but the evidence on this point is hardly conclusive.
    Significance of F and mf in Evolution.
    The gene_F isn't a desir-
    able one from the standpoint of a species trying to survive in competition
    with others. Apart from the fact that unmodified frizzles are unable to
    fly and tend to squat on the ground instead of roosting, it is clear that
    the secondary effects of the mutation are more likely to shorten life than
    to lengthen it. There are some indications that even under optimum con-
    ditions of domestication the mortality among frizzled fowls is higher than
    in normal ones. Landauer found the males to be somewhat slow in reach-
    ing sexual maturity. For all these reasons, it is highly improbable that
    the mutation could persist long in nature. Its preservation by fanciers
    is quite a different matter.
    On the other hand, the modifying gene, rnf, which to a considerable
    extent overcomes the action of F and makes the plumage almost normal,
    is a very desirable one. Perhaps this accounts for its presence in at least
    11 different breeds and varieties (Hutt, 1936). According to Fishers
    theory of the evolution of dominance, this modifying gene is exactly
    of the kind that would be preserved and accumulated under natural selec-
    tion. It is possible that a widespread distribution of it among the an-
    cestors of our domestic fowls, even before Jungle Fowls were distributed
    to the four corners of the world, may be responsible for its presence and
    prevalence in our modern breeds."

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2008
  8. Blisschick

    Blisschick not rusty

    Feb 20, 2007
    Shepherd, Texas
    I don't know about that flying thing...I have a couple of chicks that get a little lift with their jumps, and do a lot better than I would have expected. The daddy roo does pretty good too...somehow he manages to get up on the top edge of the pens to roost with the turkeys!
  9. mdbucks

    mdbucks Cooped Up

    Jul 14, 2007
    EXIT 109 on 95
    Maybe no long distance flights, but mine roosts with the guineas in the rafters 8 feet up
  10. "Apart from the fact that unmodified frizzles are unable to
    fly and tend to squat on the ground instead of roosting,..."

    I'm not sure what he's referring to by unmodified frizzles.
    My frizzled hens are decent fliers. The FF / homozygous / frazzled Cochin girls could barely make it up the 18" to get in the coop --- I had to build them a step.

    edited to add: I didn't mean to C&P that last bit about evolution, wasn't really pertinent to "why not to breed frizz x frizz".

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2008

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