Breeding (mostly) self-sufficient chickens

[spartacus_63]

so you used different bloodlines @spartacus_63 ? If not, it was definitely from inbreedin, just plain chicken genetics.

Breeding without inbreeding does not require a PhD. Why anyone would assume that they understand something they have zero knowledge on amazes me. I stated that inbreeding was not an issue yet you seemed to have disregarded that statement. I do not get in the habit of repeating myself nor explaining myself. Hybrid breeding or cross breeding often leads to diminished traits from the original breeds. The further you get from F1, the more diminished some traits are likely to get. Hybrid breeding can also be used to enhance traits, but those rarely endure much beyond F1, at least not at the same rate. Simple chicken genetics.
I have found that breeding cross bred cocks and hens from the breeds that I originated with resulted in decreased egg production and broodiness over time. I also found that the most broody hens I ever had were F1 hens from the a RIR over an Orpington. On the down side, the hens tended to be smaller than typical Orpingtons.

 

[Clearwater Chicken]

you can maintain good production from crosses. this requires selective breeding and intensive tracking of development and lay rate. broodiness is also a trait which one can breed for. so it might have not been inbreeding just no selection. did you do selective breeding? not trying to put you down just pointing out something

 

[Severne]

In my experience at least, unless you are using worse producing stock than the crossbreeds, their production won’t go down. It’s not something that really happens often.

 

[Severne]

As Clearwater chicken said, selective breeding is all you need to keep your production up.

 

[spartacus_63]

you can maintain good production from crosses. this requires selective breeding and intensive tracking of development and lay rate. broodiness is also a trait which one can breed for. so it might have not been inbreeding just no selection. did you do selective breeding? not trying to put you down just pointing out something

Some attention should be paid to what I said. I noticed a decline in egg production. Egg production did not stop or even become poor, but it did decline with successive cross breeding. RIRs were created for their egg production. Orpingtons were bred to be a dual purpose breed and has never been as good a layer as good RIRs. RIRs may be considered a dual purpose breed, but that is not what they were bred for. Both breeds have great characteristics, and both have stronger points over the other. When cross breeding, you can not control the genetic outcome. It is a given that traits from both will show up in the off spring. The further away from the original line you get, the more diluted the original genetics become.
I did selective breeding but not for egg production. Anyone that knows anything about breeding for egg production would know that is a very laborious task and kinda defeats the purpose of having a self sustaining flock. It is much easier to maintain pure lines to allow for the hybrid breeding back to F1 periodically.

 

[Clearwater Chicken]

Okay, i can understand how their was a decline in egg production. you can have a little say over the genetic outcome, by selective breeding

 

[spartacus_63]

Okay, i can understand how their was a decline in egg production. you can have a little say over the genetic outcome, by selective breeding

Selective breeding provides for the best probable outcome, but there is no control beyond setting the conditions.

 

[Severne]

I agree but you said that they generally declined in production cross after cross, you didn’t say that the orp x RIR was a worse layer than the RIR. That is what makes sense. It would probably be a worse layer if you crosses the RIR genes with Orpington laying genes, cool. But I thought what you were saying is that the later generations of Orpington X RIR where gradually becoming worse layers than the first crosses?
Since you didn’t inbreed and you didn’t use worse producing stock, how could they be worse than the earlier ones. I’ve had very good luck with my egg laying blue Egger, crossing Mainly Isbar, EE, leghorn and RIR. But I also added in some bantam for broodyness, (and because my bantams are the best layers besides the leghorns and RIR and they are very flighty). I also added some orp. and BR. I only had 2 out of the fist 22 that went broody and then only one out of the next 12 but I will keep working on it, and it dosnt make egg production go down on the ones that are broodies, exept when they are in incubation of eggs. I have used all the different breeds so now I am getting new chickens for new blood so I avoid Inbreeding.

 

[Clearwater Chicken]

I agree but you said that they generally declined in production cross after cross, you didn’t say that the orp x RIR was a worse layer than the RIR. That is what makes sense. It would probably be a worse layer if you crosses the RIR genes with Orpington laying genes, cool. But I thought what you were saying is that the later generations of Orpington X RIR where gradually becoming worse layers than the first crosses?
Since you didn’t inbreed and you didn’t use worse producing stock, how could they be worse than the earlier ones. I’ve had very good luck with my egg laying blue Egger, crossing Mainly Isbar, EE, leghorn and RIR. But I also added in some bantam for broodyness, (and because my bantams are the best layers besides the leghorns and RIR and they are very flighty). I also added some orp. and BR. I only had 2 out of the fist 22 that went broody and then only one out of the next 12 but I will keep working on it, and it dosnt make egg production go down on the ones that are broodies, exept when they are in incubation of eggs. I have used all the different breeds so now I am getting new chickens for new blood so I avoid Inbreeding.

the way i plan on not inbreeding is using the spiral breeding method. this is where you have families and breed say 1 male to twos females and so on. F1 crosses are usually better than both breeds used but the next generations have chickens all over the map on production

 

[cgmccary]

I want to get into chicken breeding. I want birds that will be their own primary defense from predators, lay year round, raise chicks reliably, and forage well. I’m thinking that I’ll use some kind of Asils and Freedom Rangers, as well as perhaps Jersey Giants. I’m hoping that aggressiveness and sheer size will make them difficult targets for predators, but of course, (because of the nature of my goal) natural selection will be the primary decision maker for how these birds end up. Does anyone have input on this?

Everything wants to eat a chicken. I use three Great Pyrenees dogs as livestock guardians. I live in a national forest and would get wiped out if I did not have the dogs and it wouldn't matter what kind of chickens I kept. The Pyrenees make what I have possible.