Breeding our own 'meats'...etc etc

[Lovethembuffs]

Yes, genetics can be complicated!

Some points about barring:
--it can appear in both males and females (example: Barred Rocks)
--barring is a dominant gene, so you can see if it is present in a black chicken (example: Barred Rocks have barring, Black Jersey Giants do not).
--white barring on a white chicken is not obvious.
--Because barring is on the Z sex chromosome, a cross of barred and not-barred will give different results depending on which one is the father and which is the mother.
--A hen gives a Z chromosome to her sons and a W chromosome to her daughters. That means she can give barring to her sons but not to her daughters. Mating a barred hen with a not-barred rooster produces sexlink chicks. (Examples: Rhode Island Red rooster with Barred Rock hen, or solid black rooster with Delaware hen. Either cross will produce black sons with white barring, and black daughters with no barring.)
--a rooster has two Z chromosomes, so he can have either one barring gene or two. He gives one chromosome to each chick he sires. If he has two barring genes (one on each Z chromosome), then he gives one to every chick, males and females alike. If he has one barring gene and one not-barring gene, he gives barring to half of his chicks and not-barring to the other half, but again it has nothing to do with which ones are males vs. females. In either case, you cannot sex the chicks by looking for barring.

Since your chicks are black with barring, we know the White Rock is not giving genes to make them white all over. We do not know if he is giving genes for just black (in which case they got barring from a Delaware mother and are males), or if the rooster is giving genes for black and for white barring (in which case the chicks could have either mother, and could be males or females.)

I do have White Jersey Giant hens in this separated flock also. I just don't know which eggs are from the Delaware's or the Jerseys as they all use the same nest boxes. I believe all the hens are laying as I have 8 Delaware and 6 Jerseys and I'm getting 10 eggs on one day and 12 the next. Not the best of control I realize, there again it's a space issue.

 

[NatJ]

I do have White Jersey Giant hens in this separated flock also. I just don't know which eggs are from the Delaware's or the Jerseys as they all use the same nest boxes. I believe all the hens are laying as I have 8 Delaware and 6 Jerseys and I'm getting 10 eggs on one day and 12 the next. Not the best of control I realize, there again it's a space issue.

Yes, that does make it harder to tell which birds are the parents of the chicks.

If the chicks grow up to include any pullets with barring, then the barring must be coming from their father. If all barred chicks are males, and you later get females with no barring, then the barring is probably coming from hens (Delawares definitely have barring, White Jersey Giants probably do not but I can't be positive. White Rocks are more likely than White Jersey Giants to have barring, due to what other colors are popular in each breed.)

 

[Lovethembuffs]

Please do!!!!! The summer has gotten away from me and I have not hatched the crosses I set up to do. So I will live vicariously through your efforts!!! Excited to see yours.

Good Morning! Here's an update on the chicks I hatched from my WR Rooster and Delaware and WJG hens. I was confusing auto sex with sex link. They were auto sex at hatch and they are all barred roosters...as I suspected from the white or yellow dots on their heads at hatch. I had set 7 eggs, 2 were not fertile, 5 hatched. 4 are growing well but, there seems to be one runt.....smaller than the others. Now to see how long it will take them to get to weight for a decent meat bird. The rest of the story is. I had ordered x rocks broilers from a hatchery in California by San Jose. Great to work with and I did that because the hatchery in Oregon with one day shipping vaccinates all eggs......no choice and I could not have these birds for consumption vaccinated. Anyway, to make a long story short, out of 42 chicks 1 survived the trip...I did damage control on those that were still showing life but very weak, electrolyte's etc but, to no avail. The one that survived was the only one standing and peeping when I opened the box at the P.O. This is the second time this year I have lost chicks due to USPS. not getting them here in 3 days instead of 4. Oh Yeah...their tracking says they arrived on time....they don't care if they're all dead when they arrive. Our delivery system has changed here this year. I'm hearing it's bad throughout the country...that is why I am attempting to raise my own meat birds.....the devastation of these babies arriving dead is to traumatic. That being said, the one little guy.....yes, I suspect it is a rooster, is doing well and with the five I hatched. That's pretty much it for now. I'll keep you updated on their progress. Oh! And...I was able to find Standard White Cornish hatching eggs. They were shipped to me, arrived last Monday. I set them on Tuesday after they settled for 24 hours and I will candle them tonight to see what I have. Hoping for more hens than cockerels of course! Update:

I candled the Cornish eggs last evening. She sent eight and out of those three are fertile. I took pics of the non fertile eggs and contacted the sell. She's been very good at getting back to me so I will see what the disposition will be. I will purchase more eggs as I am wanting a nice flock of these birds.. Again I will update.

 

[ShellBelly Hutch]

There are about four ways (genetically speaking) to make a white chicken, and only one of them will work for making sexlinks.

To make sexlinks, you need the Silver gene (turns red/gold into white.) If you want to be sure of having that gene, you can use something like Delawares or Columbian Rocks or Columbian Wyandottes. The bits of black in all those patterns are enough to show that the white is actually caused by Silver. If your White Rocks are right for making sexlinks, they have that, plus a gene called Dominant White that turns black into white.


With those mixes:

If you get any chicks that are red/gold and grow white feathers in their wings and tails, then at least some of your White Rock hens are the right kind for making sexlinks. (Coloring would look very much like the commerically-available Red Sexlinks that get sold as ISA Brown, Red Star, Gold Comet, and so forth.) All such chicks would be pullets.

If you get any pullets that are all white without being pure White Rocks, then you have at least one White Rock with the wrong genes (probably a genetically black chicken, with Dominant White turning it to white: but being genetically black all over, it doesn't show the gold or silver that you need to see for sexing.) If you know which eggs came from which pen, and if you have them hatch inside mesh bags or baskets or something, you could watch for any white pullets from the pen that has no White Rock rooster. Or from either pen, a white pullet with a pea comb would have to be a mix (white from White Rock, pea comb from Dark Cornish.)

If you get any chicks that are all black, or black with white barring, then you also have at least one White Rock with wrong genes (probably a genetically black chicken, with or without white barring, that has the recessive white gene turning it white all over. Breeding to any other color means the chicks inherit only one recessive white gene, and since that is recessive it does not make the chicks white.)

Sometimes chickens that look white have more than one set of genes that make them that way, so there is a chance you might get different results from different ones of your White Rocks.

Any chick with a pea comb has at least one Dark Cornish parent.
Chicks with single combs have two single comb parents (White Rock, Rhode Island Red, or a mix of the two).

I'm going to read this again, possibly out loud, and with my finger pointing to each word, so I can try to retain it this time. Its... so... much!!! Thank you for the break down!!!

 

[rbc-bow-chicka]

There are about four ways (genetically speaking) to make a white chicken, and only one of them will work for making sexlinks.

To make sexlinks, you need the Silver gene (turns red/gold into white.) If you want to be sure of having that gene, you can use something like Delawares or Columbian Rocks or Columbian Wyandottes. The bits of black in all those patterns are enough to show that the white is actually caused by Silver. If your White Rocks are right for making sexlinks, they have that, plus a gene called Dominant White that turns black into white.


With those mixes:

If you get any chicks that are red/gold and grow white feathers in their wings and tails, then at least some of your White Rock hens are the right kind for making sexlinks. (Coloring would look very much like the commerically-available Red Sexlinks that get sold as ISA Brown, Red Star, Gold Comet, and so forth.) All such chicks would be pullets.

If you get any pullets that are all white without being pure White Rocks, then you have at least one White Rock with the wrong genes (probably a genetically black chicken, with Dominant White turning it to white: but being genetically black all over, it doesn't show the gold or silver that you need to see for sexing.) If you know which eggs came from which pen, and if you have them hatch inside mesh bags or baskets or something, you could watch for any white pullets from the pen that has no White Rock rooster. Or from either pen, a white pullet with a pea comb would have to be a mix (white from White Rock, pea comb from Dark Cornish.)

If you get any chicks that are all black, or black with white barring, then you also have at least one White Rock with wrong genes (probably a genetically black chicken, with or without white barring, that has the recessive white gene turning it white all over. Breeding to any other color means the chicks inherit only one recessive white gene, and since that is recessive it does not make the chicks white.)

Sometimes chickens that look white have more than one set of genes that make them that way, so there is a chance you might get different results from different ones of your White Rocks.

Any chick with a pea comb has at least one Dark Cornish parent.
Chicks with single combs have two single comb parents (White Rock, Rhode Island Red, or a mix of the two).

Revitalizing this thread with an add on question about genetics.

When combining roo and hens in an effort to create sex links, is one pairing better than another? Or will one not 'work' at all?

Pairings:

White Rock roo × Rhode Island Red hens

Rhode Island Red roo x White Rock hens

I am moving roosters around and want to be efficient about it.

Thank you.

 

[rbc-bow-chicka]

Good Morning! Here's an update on the chicks I hatched from my WR Rooster and Delaware and WJG hens. I was confusing auto sex with sex link. They were auto sex at hatch and they are all barred roosters...as I suspected from the white or yellow dots on their heads at hatch. I had set 7 eggs, 2 were not fertile, 5 hatched. 4 are growing well but, there seems to be one runt.....smaller than the others. Now to see how long it will take them to get to weight for a decent meat bird. The rest of the story is. I had ordered x rocks broilers from a hatchery in California by San Jose. Great to work with and I did that because the hatchery in Oregon with one day shipping vaccinates all eggs......no choice and I could not have these birds for consumption vaccinated. Anyway, to make a long story short, out of 42 chicks 1 survived the trip...I did damage control on those that were still showing life but very weak, electrolyte's etc but, to no avail. The one that survived was the only one standing and peeping when I opened the box at the P.O. This is the second time this year I have lost chicks due to USPS. not getting them here in 3 days instead of 4. Oh Yeah...their tracking says they arrived on time....they don't care if they're all dead when they arrive. Our delivery system has changed here this year. I'm hearing it's bad throughout the country...that is why I am attempting to raise my own meat birds.....the devastation of these babies arriving dead is to traumatic. That being said, the one little guy.....yes, I suspect it is a rooster, is doing well and with the five I hatched. That's pretty much it for now. I'll keep you updated on their progress. Oh! And...I was able to find Standard White Cornish hatching eggs. They were shipped to me, arrived last Monday. I set them on Tuesday after they settled for 24 hours and I will candle them tonight to see what I have. Hoping for more hens than cockerels of course! Update:

I candled the Cornish eggs last evening. She sent eight and out of those three are fertile. I took pics of the non fertile eggs and contacted the sell. She's been very good at getting back to me so I will see what the disposition will be. I will purchase more eggs as I am wanting a nice flock of these birds.. Again I will update.

How did they do?

We also had a bad shipment from MMcM in 2020 and that is what started us down our 'let's try to breed our own *some kind of meat bird* rabbit hole.'

 

[rbc-bow-chicka]

What are the ones looking like that you did manage to hatch now? They are now 6 months old?

I wound up selling them so I do not have an answer for you. I keep meaning to text the girl for pictures but my brain flits onto something else.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Revitalizing this thread with an add on question about genetics.

When combining roo and hens in an effort to create sex links, is one pairing better than another? Or will one not 'work' at all?

Pairings:

White Rock roo × Rhode Island Red hens

Rhode Island Red roo x White Rock hens

I am moving roosters around and want to be efficient about it.

Thank you.

Read the first post in this thread. It explains three different ways to make sex links.

Sex- linked Information | BackYard Chickens - Learn How to Raise Chickens

A WR roo over a RIR hen will not give you a sex link. A RIR Roo over most WR hens will give you a red sex link.

You will notice Tadkerson cautions you about the risk of using solid white hens. For Red Sex Links, the gene pair that you are working with is the Silver/Gold gene pair. You do not need a Silver gene to make an all-white chicken and White Rocks are solid white. Many White Rocks do have the Silver so it usually works. It is certainly worth a try, especially if you already have the chickens.

 

[rbc-bow-chicka]

Read the first post in this thread. It explains three different ways to make sex links.

Sex- linked Information | BackYard Chickens - Learn How to Raise Chickens

A WR roo over a RIR hen will not give you a sex link. A RIR Roo over most WR hens will give you a red sex link.

You will notice Tadkerson cautions you about the risk of using solid white hens. For Red Sex Links, the gene pair that you are working with is the Silver/Gold gene pair. You do not need a Silver gene to make an all-white chicken and White Rocks are solid white. Many White Rocks do have the Silver so it usually works. It is certainly worth a try, especially if you already have the chickens.

Thank you SO much for this excellent information.

I had my suspicions about the WR roo and RIR hens.... he will still likely go in with them for a spell as it seems its as good a place as any, I will not worry about collecting the eggs to hatch.

When I got them all as chicks, it was with the intention of specifically trying out the RIR roo × WR hens eventually.... as well as hatching pure of each. It's worth a shot-- seems to be my mantra.

Thank you again.

 

[NatJ]

When combining roo and hens in an effort to create sex links, is one pairing better than another? Or will one not 'work' at all?

Pairings:

White Rock roo × Rhode Island Red hens

Rhode Island Red roo x White Rock hens

I am moving roosters around and want to be efficient about it.

Thank you.

It definitely matters.

One way gives you sexlinks (Rhode Island Red rooster has the gold gene, crossed with hens who have Silver. Your White Rock hens might work for this.) The daughters come out gold like their father, the sons silver like their mother.

Crossing the same two breeds the other direction gives you a bunch of white chicks, because both the sons and the daughters inherit Silver from their father.

Sexlinks work because silver is dominant over gold, and because a rooster has sex chromosomes ZZ while a hen has ZW. So when you cross it the correct way, the gold rooster gives a Z chromosome with gold to each chick. The hen gives a Z chromsome with silver to her sons so they show silver (because silver is dominant.) The hen gives a W chromosome to each daughter, which makes them female but does not change their color. So the daughters show the gold they inherited from their father.

If you do the cross the other direction, a silver rooster can give a Z chromosome with silver to all of his chicks, both males and females. Because silver is dominant, that is what you see, no matter what gene the mother gives her sons.

The same patterns work for any of the other sexlink traits. You need the rooster to have the recessive gene, which will show in his daughters. The hen needs the dominant gene, so it will show in her sons (but the daughters are getting a W chromosome to make them female, so they don't get whatever dominant gene was on the Z chromosome their mother had.)

Sexlinks can be made with Barring, chocolate, or fast/slow feathering. In each case the father needs the recessive trait (not-barred, chocolate, fast feathering), and the mother needs the dominant trait (barring, not-chocolate, slow feathering.) Then the sons will show the same dominant trait as their mother, and the daughters will show the same recessive trait as their father.