Breeding to SOP

[Doc7]

My question isn’t if it is difficult (I know it is and takes a lot of years and time; I won’t be doing it. I am genetically curious.)

Hatchery stock, or even many breeder stock, of a particular breed has been diluted by other breeds in the past.

However, if one took hatchery stock or breeder stock birds and bred them to the standard for the bird, along the way using different breeds for certain traits, and a bird that bred “true” to the SOP for generations, would it actually be that breed?

For example it is unlikely a hatchery Buff Orpington is genetically unadulterated BO from their development in England hundreds of years ago but has a couple different great-great grandparents mixed in there along the way. If one bred a chicken that was the SOP for a BO is it a BO? Or is DNA purity what matters?

 

[Doc7]

I note that when standards were developed, DNA testing was not possible.

This has changed a lot of things in the last 30 years. For example : woods bison vs bison bison (American Buffalo) now considered one species. Same as Florida Panther vs Rocky Mountain mountain lion.

 

[LilJoe]

I'm pretty sure that if you mixed one breed to another breed... (Buff Orpington × another breed) ... you would have to breed back to a buff orpington for 8 generations for it to be considered pure. I'm not 100% sure on the number of generations but I know you have to breed back to the pure breed for so many generations in order for it to be considered pure again.

 

[Redhead Rae]

You could work with hatchery stock and work them up to standard. However, it will probably take a good many years of work to do it with little return on your investment.... except for a LOT of cockerels in the freezer and $5-15 (depending on where you live) for each point of lay pullet you aren't keeping for breeders.

It would be a lot easier, and less expensive, to get started with a pair/trio of 6 month old second choice grow outs from a show breeder.

 

[Redhead Rae]

For example, I bought a trio of second best LF Dark Cornish from a show breeder for $150 in the fall of 2017, I hatched 40+ chicks off them this past year and I am SPOILED for choice when it comes to this year's breeders. At least half the pullets look to be VERY good and the cockerels are all big, meaty birds with good temperaments. I'll be able to make a return on my investment not only in meat, but I can sell my second best options for about as much as I paid for my original trio.

 

[Redhead Rae]

If you are looking into working with a breed long term, I would join a Facebook group (or 5) specifically for the breed(s) you are considering. That is where the show breeders are and that is where I found my breeding stock.

 

[JedJackson]

The important thing is the bird having the right qualities for the breed, not how you got there. No one does DNA tests at poultry shows. For one thing, different strains of the same breed may be unrelated, meaning different crosses by different people eventually arrived at the same result, through a long period of selection.

But obviously it will take much less time to choose good purebred specimens, and to breed from them. To start crossing different breeds at random will get you nowhere nowadays without a scientifically based program, and years of selection. I don't see the point unless you are trying to revive an extinct breed or to improve a breed that has degenerated in quality.

 

[Doc7]

I am not going to do this, I was just wondering how a breed is considered pure (meets standard or genetically).

Regarding breeding back to a Buff orp for 8 generations as an example; does that BO you are breeding to need to be traceable to William Cooks flock of 1886?

It sounds like not.

 

[Redhead Rae]

But obviously it will take much less time to choose good purebred specimens, and to breed from them. To start crossing different breeds at random will get you nowhere nowadays without a scientifically based program, and years of selection. I don't see the point unless you are trying to revive an extinct breed or to improve a breed that has degenerated in quality.

Exactly, there is no breed registry for chickens like there is for dogs/cows/horses/sheep/pigs/etc. At shows, they judge the bird based on SOP alone. If it looks, feels, acts like X breed, it is. Take a look at Greenfire Farms "Lamona". They have stock from a guy who took the original formula for the breed and recreated an almost extinct breed.

 

[Redhead Rae]

Regarding breeding back to a Buff orp for 8 generations as an example; does that BO you are breeding to need to be traceable to William Cooks flock of 1886?

It sounds like not.

Nope. If you got your hands on his notes and recreated the breed based on his formula, you would have Orpingtons.