Breeding to SOP

[JedJackson]

Nope. If you got your hands on his notes and recreated the breed based on his formula, you would have Orpingtons.

Yep. And he used different breeds for each of the color varieties of Orpingtons he created. His goal was good conformation to the qualities he bred for, not pure blood or relatedness.

 

[Doc7]

Exactly, there is no breed registry for chickens like there is for dogs/cows/horses/sheep/pigs/etc. At shows, they judge the bird based on SOP alone. If it looks, feels, acts like X breed, it is. Take a look at Greenfire Farms "Lamona". They have stock from a guy who took the original formula for the breed and recreated an almost extinct breed.

This is EXCELLENT and answers all of my questions. That link alone has answered my questions and your comments only shed further light!

 

[Redhead Rae]

This is EXCELLENT and answers all of my questions. That link alone has answered my questions and your comments only shed further light!

Glad to be of assistance.

 

[Mosey2003]

Chicken breeds are kind of the opposite of pedigreed dogs, if you want to draw a comparison.

Take a Golden Retriever, for example. That dog has a pedigree that traces back many generations, and it must in order to be accepted by the registry as being a Golden Retriever. You can breed any pedigreed Golden to any other pedigreed Golden, and even if the pups come out looking like extremely poor examples, they are still Golden Retrievers.

Now, with chickens, it really doesn't matter what's in the pedigree behind the chicken (as far as classifying it as a breed). If your chicken looks like a Buff Orpington, it is one. Doesn't matter what you used to make it, as long as it looks right, it's in. Now, we can't take this further and say should you breed a certain bird all of its offspring are going to look right, but that's basically the way it works.

As far as hatchery birds, some of those traits are bred in really well at this point. Myself, I started with hatchery Barred Rocks, and have been crossing them with heritage (SOP-bred) males. The halfbreds look very much hatchery still, with the poor barring and the very upright tails. All the good male added was size, basically. Are they nicer than their mothers? Yes, a bit. Right now I have some 3/4 heritage in the brooder, I'll be interested to see how they turn out. I think you'd have to go at least another two generations here before seeing anything truly decent. And I'm not trying to breed them up for that purpose, they're just what I happen to have right now that is actively laying. They'll all be going sometime this year.

 

[cgmccary]

Chickens are not judged by SOP on genotype but phenotype. Breeds are not diluted. Grading in a breed (or cross breeding to another breed using a female of the other breed) is a common way in breeding chickens to fix or improve something. Only Eight generations are needed to get the breed back to what is considered pure. Hatchery stock are often crossed with Leghorns to improve egg laying and breeding is not done very selectively. That is why they are never SOP correct.

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

For example it is unlikely a hatchery Buff Orpington is genetically unadulterated BO from their development in England hundreds of years ago but has a couple different great-great grandparents mixed in there along the way.

I disagree. Hatchery birds are pure and do not have other breeds mixed in. Hatchery stock is bred to resemble show quality stock but with an emphasis on production.
Hatcheries aren’t selling mutts, if they did they’d go out of business.

 

[edgarmongold]

I'm pretty sure that if you mixed one breed to another breed... (Buff Orpington × another breed) ... you would have to breed back to a buff orpington for 8 generations for it to be considered pure. I'm not 100% sure on the number of generations but I know you have to breed back to the pure breed for so many generations in order for it to be considered pure again.

Not even sure what the term “pure” means relating to chickens.
If you mean will they produce offspring similar to parent stock.
It can be done in less half the time mentioned 8 generations.
There’s no organization keeping pedigrees.
The closest would be breeding records.
They are only as good as the person that kept them.
Chickens are standard bred meaning their offspring’s phenotype is evaluated against a standard wether it be the SOP or something else.
Being standard bred means when I need a trait fixed I can get it from any breed or variety.
Some out crosses work better than others.
Some swear by line breeding and use the term “pure”
Just another marketing gimmick as far as I am concerned.
Select you birds based on what you want them for.
Just a tip: If someone tries to sell you a line that has had nothing crossed in since they bought them off of a well known breeder and they have been dead longer than 5 years disregard the sales pitch and evaluate the birds based on what you’re going to use them for.

 

[Sally PB]

What a fascinating thread. Very interesting information. Thanks to all who posted.

 

[edgarmongold]

I'm pretty sure that if you mixed one breed to another breed... (Buff Orpington × another breed) ... you would have to breed back to a buff orpington for 8 generations for it to be considered pure. I'm not 100% sure on the number of generations but I know you have to breed back to the pure breed for so many generations in order for it to be considered pure again.

Chickens are standard bred only what they look like defines them not how many generations they are bred back to anything.
What their offspring develop as does not determine pedigree as there are no pedigrees submitted to any organization.
I maintain breeding records for my own information.
Forget about what you have been led to believe about in breeding line breeding from other species.
The stories you hear about in breeding are true but caused by poor selection of breeding material.
Keep in mind sound breeding material first and foremost over everything else.
My New Hampshire Bantam are first and foremost livestock.
If a bird gets sick for any reason it doesn’t get bred no matter what.
I pair mate which ends up with a smaller gene pool that every generation poor genes are eliminated.
Yes when you tighten down the gene pool recessive traits show up that you might not even know were there.
When someone talks to you about need for genetic diversity run fast and as far from them as you can.
While genetic diversity bring with it good genes it also brings with it a lot of traits that you will have to breed out.
Just remember be ruthless no matter how pretty awards won that it comes running when it sees doesn’t mean it should be bred and produce offspring.
Responsible breeding isn’t for everyone the main thing is enjoy your chickens

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Yep. And he used different breeds for each of the color varieties of Orpingtons he created. His goal was good conformation to the qualities he bred for, not pure blood or relatedness.

Cook did not create the other colors of Orpington. He only created Black to which were developed into buff in area where common egg layers were buff. Other varieties were added later and not by Cook. The original Black were sent to Australia where they were selectively bred, without addition of external breeds, to become the better utility breed Australorp. This would be the same as RIR that was selectively bred to become the better utility breed New Hampshire.

To the original OP's question- Yes, any bird or breed can be used to obtain another breed. If it breeds true and matches the description of the intended breed then it is that breed. The adage if it looks and quacks like a duck then it is a duck comes to mind.