Breeds to start with for insect control in an orchard?

[SunHwaKwon]

Well, before I knew better I was throwing all sorts of things in my chicken run for them to eat only to find out that some were on the "do not feed" list (like avocado) and never once did they eat any of the "poisonous" things I gifted them with. So, I would not be surprised if they are smart enough to not eat the poisonous berries.

 

[LearninMyFlock]

The funny thing about elderberries is I never researched it before we ate any. .... and my children and I have eaten them with out ill affects. Of course if we eat them this year we'll probably die now that I know it's not an innocent edible berry Not really a tasty treat so maybe we didn't eat enough to make us sick tho.

 

[Digby57]

That is great to know. I think the chickens would have plenty of choice on this piece of ground and wouldn't resort to eating something that once tried gave them a belly ache. I just highly doubt they are going to kill themselves trying to eat elderberries and I don't imagine they will cause significant loss of good fruit. But there's really only one way to find out I suppose.

If they surprise me I would still have the coops and the ability to add pens and go for a different market with some kind of chicken, if not the game bantams. I'm always looking for venues for diversification. Or I could just run guineas exclusively if that's how it turns out.

One of the nice things about elderberries is that they have relatively few pests, but japanese beetles wont think twice about eating them and aphids and grasshoppers may also crop up. Also some caterpillars. This is why I thought chickens (or guineas) would be a good idea as they should gladly eat enough pest insects to keep the already pest-resistant elderberries virtually insect free without the use of any insecticide at all. Then I could branch out into other berries as the orchard matures and I am sure the insect issues are well-checked.

The bad thing about elderberries is that they must be cooked or otherwise processed or they are poisonous. It is a remarkably under-utilized fruit given its health benefits. Most people have no idea that elderberry is used to improve the flavor of grape wine fairly routinely. Elderberry foods are common in Europe, even though our native elderberry is regarded as being superior in its health benefits.

Basically the problem is that you just cant eat it raw, its so sour by itself that you wouldn't eat it raw even if you could! On the other hand, the flowers can be eaten right off the plant and are used for all kinds of foods and drinks.

 

[Digby57]

Yeah, depending on the berry "poisonous" is a little strong of a word. Basically there is cyanide in the raw berries, but you wouldn't consider apple seeds to be a serious poison. Everyone knows not to eat apple seeds, but come on. We don't consider them to be a deadly poison. Yet on the other hand you can certainly eat enough apple seeds to be fatal.

 

[LearninMyFlock]

Yeah, depending on the berry "poisonous" is a little strong of a word. Basically there is cyanide in the raw berries, but you wouldn't consider apple seeds to be a serious poison. Everyone knows not to eat apple seeds, but come on. We don't consider them to be a deadly poison. Yet on the other hand you can certainly eat enough apple seeds to be fatal.

Very interesting I also know people who eat Apple seeds. But only with the whole Apple. I've heard it is actually good for you but don't just go easy Apple seeds by themselves as then it could make you sick. So I'm guessing with both of them, whatever is 'poisonous' is in large quantities but a little bit won't hurt maybe. I'm always looking for new things to do with my elderberries altho we don't drink wine. But they have great health benefits. (Just not raw ). Best wishes. Sounds like a fun set up your going for.

 

[Digby57]

Thank you! Try this if you have new flowers now (I do, but further north you might be a little early). Clip off the whole flower head. Make some pancake batter and dip that whole flower head in it. Slap it in a little oil or whatever you make pancakes with and before its ready to flip take some small scissors and cut off as much of the little stems as possible. Flip it, cook and eat. Viola! You'll see this recipe all over the internet. You can flavor teas or even cocktails with the flowers. I make a syrup to add to hot teas to combat the common cold. IT contains extract of the flower and berries. St. Germaine is an elder flower based liquor, while not something I can make, I do add more flowers to it as an infusion. But that stuff is a little pricey.

Home made wine is the ultimate use for the ripe berry (in my mind), but the juice is great mixed in with other juices you like, or by itself with enough sugar. Jams and jellies of course, as with any sour fruit. Just as long as the berries are brought to 180* you can use it in lots of ways. I'm considering trying some charcuterie using elderberries this season, but that's going to be trial and error

I only have a small stand of elderberries currently, but I think there is potential for expanding the market.

 

[Digby57]

I'm a bit of a lush - lol!

 

[LearninMyFlock]

THANKS BUNCHES! Now if I can figure out how to save all this great info! My children love anything they can pick and eat, so now I won't get any berries when they know they can eat the flowers LOL. Thanks so much! We will try this!

 

[Digby57]

You're very welcome! Go for the flowers that are fully opened and getting close to wilting. Like maybe 2 days away from wilting, if you are familiar enough with them to guess that. Flowers with lots of yellow pollen - that's where the flavor is.

Important: Just a word of caution, and I doubt your kids will want to eat a lot of raw flowers (they're not that great raw) but the stems (any green part) should be thoroughly removed - that part is not for eating. And little tummies are always more easily upset of course. If you're a fan of sushi you may have tried one of those purple orchids that sometimes come on your plate - they kinda taste like that but with a little more fragrance from the pollen. Again, I'm not really suggesting eating a bunch of raw flowers - elder flowers or any others really lol.

There all kinds of elderflower recipes out there - if you happen to find one you feel is exceptional I would love to know about it!

 

[centrarchid]

Yep. Had a little fun reading through this one. A lot has been said, but not much that is important to my considerations.

I have kept American Games most of my life so will vouch for their ability to survive in as feral populations. They will out perform the breeds on your list when is comes to surviving and reproducing. You may find it prudent to augment nesting habitat. All breeds that are small or like bantams will more be aggressively targeted by raptors when area dog must protect is three acres. Silkies have no business being outside without direct human protection.

Where I work we he have an experimental Elder Berry plot on about 1/2 acre that is adjacent to a similar sized native plant display. I have a group of chickens used for public display that is occasionally released into both plots. Group is a harem made up of 1 or 2 hens, 6 to 12 chicks / juveniles, and a harem master (cock). Giving choice the chickens drift towards the native plant display relatively quickly. While the birds work the Elder Berry plot the have three type of micro-habitat to forage. First is the Elder Berry plants themselves which support modest amounts of insect drift the chickens can consume. The insects that are problematic such as the evil beetle below the chickens will not touch.

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Chickens will work the mulch area and might provide some benefit by bioturbating mulch reducing abundance of some critters that do not tolerate bioturbation well. The chickens do also eat a lot of mulch inhabitants that are not toxic as enabled by consuming the Elder Berry plants.

Chickens will be most impactful on insect communities and possibly slugs within cover crop between rows. The chickens can easily reduce the insects growing on location as well as the drift.

Supplemental feeding of chickens can be used to get more even foraging pressure on the entire 3 acres. Too much bioturbation of mulch may be problematic for the Elder Berry plants so watch that.

I work at a land grant university where my lab sits in the middle of several cropping systems. This makes me think that trap crops might make the chickens more effective at controlling some pests. Pest like the Elder Berry Beetle and Spot-winged Fruit Flies are not likely to be controlled owing to toxicity or chickens not interested in such small items that stay largely up and out of reach.