Broilers dying of Ascites?

[my sunwolf]

I have had my Cornish X on a strict diet since they were 2 weeks old (12 hrs on, 12 hrs off, with some empty food dishes in the middle).

At 2.5 weeks the smallest baby hunched in a corner, fluffed up, and refused to eat or drink. I didn't do any special nursing other than to dip its beak in case it forgot where the water was; I lost that one after a few days. It had a hard, swollen belly.

Now they are 4 weeks old. Today I found one fluffed, in the corner. It has a huge purple belly that is hard when I touch it. Its feet are also turning purple, and its comb and face are very pale.

Poops are normal for Cornish X, mostly solid with a few really runny poos. The others are very healthy. They've been out on grass since 3 weeks old. They still get fed 12 hrs on, 12 hrs off (they go into their dog crate for the night). The sick bird is not pooping quite as much as a Cornish X should.

Is this ascites? Is there anything I can do about this, besides the feeding schedule?

It's interesting to note that I'm still feeding 20% protein starter instead of a lower protein grower just because I don't have any. Could this be the cause? Should I add a little scratch in with their feed?

I really don't want to lose any more meaties

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.

 

[SunnysMama]

My experience with ascites is a spongy squishy breast like it's full of water. I'm not sure what would be causing what you describe.

 

[delisha]

Ferment the feed.
how often do you move the tractor?
Do they have enough ventilation?
your next death you need to do an autopsy.

This is pretty rare for such young birds. You might have gotten a really bad batch of chicks. Call your distributor and let them know what is going on.

 

[my sunwolf]

Ferment the feed.
how often do you move the tractor?
Do they have enough ventilation?
your next death you need to do an autopsy.

This is pretty rare for such young birds. You might have gotten a really bad batch of chicks. Call your distributor and let them know what is going on.

Hm, so probably not ascites.

I've done some FF for my birds in the past but can't ever seem to keep it from going too far fermented, maybe I will try again for the Cornish X.

I just picked them up at TSC, so they're not direct from the hatchery and I doubt the TSC cares that their birds are dying.

I move the salatin-style pen every 2 days, there are 9 Cornish X + 2 EE cockerels of mine in an 8x8 tractor. I am not sure if they have enough ventilation; the pen has an enclosed side and a wire side. The dog crate they sleep in is plastic with holes along the sides at the top. I'm actually going to stop using it (even though it's a nice added security) since I have to add straw daily as it gets so poopy. Instead I will just let them sleep on the grass and move the tractor every morning.

Not sure what to look for in the autopsy, but will look for swollen, discolored organs, foods in the crop, worms in the intestines, etc.

The main part of my flock has air space with the broilers, but this main flock is perfectly healthy...

...except that we had a bad bout of cocci a few weeks back and had to give everyone Corid. Hmm and the broilers haven't been on any medicated feed. Could coccidiosis be killing them off so young? It was a pretty bad strain of cocci that I got from an outside flock (or possibly wild birds)--I found bloody poo in my 7 week old chicks, and then it spread to my 12 week olds, my hens... it was bad, and we had a few loses in the younger ones.

Guess I will start the Cornish X on Corid just in case.

 

[AgroUrica]

I honestly don't understand the concept of putting young Cornish X's on strict diets. Mine have 24/7 access to starter feed until they're 21-23 days of age and then I switch them over to a what's called a "fattener" here. Again, 24/7 access until they reach sale weight which I want them to do as quickly as possible.

When I decide to keep birds past 40 days, I switch them over to corn meal, both dry and fermented.

Besides the feed, are your birds given any sort of supplements or medication? Ours are first put on an anti-stress medication for 24 hours upon arrival. We then put them on a vitamin/amino acid supplement for several days (mixed in their water). Then, for 3 days they receive an anti-bacterial, switch them back to vitamins/amino acid supplement until they reach 21 days. At that point they go back on the anti-bacterial for 3 days and then finish with vitamins/amino acid supplement.

Now, even under the best of conditions there's likely to be some loss. My first group of 300 birds had a 2% loss ratio though the first bird did not die until day 25. I've got another group of 300 now and have lost 2 birds in under 15 days. I think most of my losses are heat-related.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[honeycreek]

I agree with the not limiting feed concept instead. I have tried it both ways and I got dismal results with limiting the feed. I had more deaths, my birds were thin for Cornish X's when butchered, and the meat was not nearly as good. Just my two cents worth.

Sounds very possible that you still have some cocci issues or those two birds just weren't healthy to begin with. With Cornish X's it's hard to say because even at a few weeks of age you will get ones that start acting sick, can't walk, and die, but all the others are okay. I always plan on a 5% loss. Most everything I've read says a 10% loss. There are many times I don't reach the 5% loss, but there have been times where I've reached the 10% or greater - usually because of the heat, raising them in warmer weather.

 

[my sunwolf]

Very interesting that you all haven't done the 12on/12off diet. I think I need to decrease the protein regardless.

I am not feeding any supplements at all. I may not be interested in Cornish X in the future because traditional slow growing chickens don't seem to need as much care and I prefer their meat, depending on how it's cooked.

It can't be heat related because it's been cold here, around freezing almost every night, and not higher than 40 or 50˚F during the day.

I actually brought the sick one inside because it started snowing today. It's sort of gasping as if trying to breathe, won't eat or drink (I'm getting it to drink by dipping its beak). I felt its abdomen and it's actually squishy now. What the heck is going on? No improvement. Doesn't really seem like cocci symptoms now that there's the gasping. These are the exact same symptoms of the younger bird that died, I had forgotten.

If this one doesn't make it, that will be a 10% loss, but we're not yet to slaughter.

The other Cornish X in the pen are freaked out about the snow but are really excited that I freshened up their food.

 

[mstricer]

It definitely sounds like Cocci. They will continue to die. I lost 2 before knowing what was wrong.

 

[AgroUrica]

Very interesting that you all haven't done the 12on/12off diet. I think I need to decrease the protein regardless.

I am not feeding any supplements at all. I may not be interested in Cornish X in the future because traditional slow growing chickens don't seem to need as much care and I prefer their meat, depending on how it's cooked.

It can't be heat related because it's been cold here, around freezing almost every night, and not higher than 40 or 50˚F during the day.

I actually brought the sick one inside because it started snowing today. It's sort of gasping as if trying to breathe, won't eat or drink (I'm getting it to drink by dipping its beak). I felt its abdomen and it's actually squishy now. What the heck is going on? No improvement. Doesn't really seem like cocci symptoms now that there's the gasping. These are the exact same symptoms of the younger bird that died, I had forgotten.

If this one doesn't make it, that will be a 10% loss, but we're not yet to slaughter.

The other Cornish X in the pen are freaked out about the snow but are really excited that I freshened up their food.

What are the air temps where the birds are housed? If they're not but a few weeks old, I'd imagine they're still quite susceptible to cold temps as well if there's no added heat source.

Also, a question. Why do you feel you need to decrease their protein intake?

 

[my sunwolf]

Hm, well I keep dipping the little one's beak in Corid water in case it's cocci. I've just never had cocci infected birds with the gasping problem, but maybe that's a particular problem with the Cornish. I will start dosing the whole cornish flock just in case as well.

Thanks all.