Broody Hen vs artificial incubation

[LukensFarms]

I have been hatching and raising chickens well over twenty years. Though I artificially incubate most of our eggs, I love encouraging hens to go broody and allow them to raise chicks on their own. We often accept old hens from people to see of we can make a broody hen out of them. I do this simply because i love chickens and i love watching the hen and chick interaction. However it is not prpfitable. What I'm wondering from other people is the following:
- Do you think a chick that is raised by a mother is a better forager?
- Do you think chicks that are raised by a mother have better survival instincts?
- Do you think an emotional connection with a chick to a hen is important in the chicks life?
- Would you support commercial production of chicks raised only by their mothers?
- If a price increase of five times the current chick price was necessary in order to have hen raised chicks, do you think people would pay it?

 

[Rich386]

I have been hatching and raising chickens well over twenty years. Though I artificially incubate most of our eggs, I love encouraging hens to go broody and allow them to raise chicks on their own. We often accept old hens from people to see of we can make a broody hen out of them. I do this simply because i love chickens and i love watching the hen and chick interaction. However it is not prpfitable. What I'm wondering from other people is the following:
- Do you think a chick that is raised by a mother is a better forager?
- Do you think chicks that are raised by a mother have better survival instincts?
- Do you think an emotional connection with a chick to a hen is important in the chicks life?
- Would you support commercial production of chicks raised only by their mothers?
- If a price increase of five times the current chick price was necessary in order to have hen raised chicks, do you think people would pay it?

I believe that instinct to forage is in their genes but I also think that animals learn through a show and tell system. So yes I would think they survive better. Emotional connection is important for any creature. That may be why they bond so easily with us. You might find a market for hen raised chicks but five times as much I don't think is likely. On the other hand There are people that will build a $2000.00 coop for three or four hens. Nothing is too good for their pets. I will end with this sorry note. I see more and more deformed and sickly chicks coming from for lack of a better term hatching factory's. You just may have hit on something NEVER TRY AND YOU NEVER FAIL!!

 

[Judy]

If they were locally available, I would pay lots more for broody raised chicks. I feel they are wiser, healthier, and more likely to make good parents themselves. I think the connection with a live parent is highly likely to be beneficial. And... I would be unlikely to buy more than a couple of chicks at a time, to add to a productive but aging flock, so increased cost would not be that significant.

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Definitely. For a few reasons:
1) chicks bred and hatched in mass commercial hatcheries as well as artificially are mostly descended from stock who did not socialize normally or experience a natural environment nor family/flock structure, and in this process many instincts (not just those regarding foraging) are bred out. Many chickens from these environments are counterproductive since they tend to have behavioural and health issues such as cannibalism, chick killing, and eating of deadly substances and objects.
2) your environment will often contain plants and insects and objects that are specifically local only to your area, and a chicken not reared by a locally bred hen may not have any instinct to guide it in these matters. Their instincts can only apply to the environments they have the most recent ancestors from; if that was a cage environment you breed chickens who if free ranged eat nails, toxic plants and insects, and other fatal things. A recent example of how far unnatural rearing has supplanted the often supposed-to-be-permanent instincts is some turkeys I had; female (mine) bred and born free range, never had trouble with chicks; male (borrowed) bred and born caged and in completely separate groups divided by age and gender; the resulting chicks starved for their first five days because they could not recognize anything except crumble as food. I don't feed crumble. I had to make some up, mushy cardboard color stuff, before they would eat. All other chicks from this hen with other fathers had eaten normally, i.e. grains, seeds, insects, plants.
Quote: Definitely. The mother's constant warnings and reactions to her environment is imprinted on the chicks in a powerful way. Chicks from the same parents, with some reared by hand and some reared by the mother, show remarkable differences in foraging and survival instincts. Instincts require activating and reinforcing to remain strong, and are often 'put to sleep' or dulled or thwarted or expressed unnaturally when interfered with. For example, hatchery bred roos here are infamous for mating with human's legs and hands; this I believe is due to artificial insemination being the main method of breeding rather than the fall-back method.
Quote: Yes, as much as I am a recent convert to the notion that animals have emotion. Now emotions are measurable and undeniable, now animals are becoming accepted as known to also employ reasoning and logic, use tools, etc... Not just the smarter few we are familiar with either.

In my experience, chicks with a mother have an extra zest for life, and artificially raised chicks are always without exception duller and lack the desire to fight for life. Having helped many species of animals in birth and hatching etc, I can verify that affection is necessary to the immune system and that stimulation can save their lives. No affection can kill. Same thing with human babies and failure to thrive syndrome, they had everything they needed for life except affection. They die when it is not present, and I have seen the same thing occur with animals. Happy equals healthy and strong immune systems compared to depressed animals. For the sake of my health, I make sure the animals I eat eggs and flesh from were happy.
Quote: Yes, within reason. Another commercially interesting new and very viable industry starting up and showing brilliant promise is that of keeping organic free range meat and layer birds. They do not receive antibiotics, or vaccines, lest they lost their organic certification, and the birds and their meat and eggs are second to none. They are raised in flocks of hundreds and thousands, in amazing health, with miniscule losses compared to their unfortunate non-organic counterparts. There is just no worth in that industry, it's a totally false economy that helps drive both human and animal disease industry profiteers.
Quote: That's the 'within reason' part right there... In my experience it costs far less, an absolute minimum, to raise chicks with their mothers, whereas artificial brooding and rearing is time, labor and financially expensive. I don't know why some people believe otherwise, but since I raise mine freerange and on natural foods, I guess it would be different for those trying to do the same in an artificial setup, i.e. permanently caged birds. That could get expensive. I also do not feed medicated feed or vaccinate, so that helps. I don't lose anywhere near the amount of birds that those who use those so-called safeguards lose. I've never lost a single bird to cocci, never even seen it. Raw garlic is the death of that disease. I give it to newly hatched chicks in their first feed and never have sick chicks. Wonderful stuff!

 

[LukensFarms]

Definitely. For a few reasons:
1) chicks bred and hatched in mass commercial hatcheries as well as artificially are mostly descended from stock who did not socialize normally or experience a natural environment nor family/flock structure, and in this process many instincts (not just those regarding foraging) are bred out. Many chickens from these environments are counterproductive since they tend to have behavioural and health issues such as cannibalism, chick killing, and eating of deadly substances and objects.
2) your environment will often contain plants and insects and objects that are specifically local only to your area, and a chicken not reared by a locally bred hen may not have any instinct to guide it in these matters. Their instincts can only apply to the environments they have the most recent ancestors from; if that was a cage environment you breed chickens who if free ranged eat nails, toxic plants and insects, and other fatal things. A recent example of how far unnatural rearing has supplanted the often supposed-to-be-permanent instincts is some turkeys I had; female (mine) bred and born free range, never had trouble with chicks; male (borrowed) bred and born caged and in completely separate groups divided by age and gender; the resulting chicks starved for their first five days because they could not recognize anything except crumble as food. I don't feed crumble. I had to make some up, mushy cardboard color stuff, before they would eat. All other chicks from this hen with other fathers had eaten normally, i.e. grains, seeds, insects, plants. 
Definitely. The mother's constant warnings and reactions to her environment is imprinted on the chicks in a powerful way. Chicks from the same parents, with some reared by hand and some reared by the mother, show remarkable differences in foraging and survival instincts. Instincts require activating and reinforcing to remain strong, and are often 'put to sleep' or dulled or thwarted or expressed unnaturally when interfered with. For example, hatchery bred roos here are infamous for mating with human's legs and hands; this I believe is due to artificial insemination being the main method of breeding rather than the fall-back method.
Yes, as much as I am a recent convert to the notion that animals have emotion. Now emotions are measurable and undeniable, now animals are becoming accepted as known to also employ reasoning and logic, use tools, etc... Not just the smarter few we are familiar with either. 

In my experience, chicks with a mother have an extra zest for life, and artificially raised chicks are always without exception duller and lack the desire to fight for life. Having helped many species of animals in birth and hatching etc, I can verify that affection is necessary to the immune system and that stimulation can save their lives. No affection can kill. Same thing with human babies and failure to thrive syndrome, they had everything they needed for life except affection. They die when it is not present, and I have seen the same thing occur with animals. Happy equals healthy and strong immune systems compared to depressed animals. For the sake of my health, I make sure the animals I eat eggs and flesh from were happy.
Yes, within reason. Another commercially interesting new and very viable industry starting up and showing brilliant promise is that of keeping organic free range meat and layer birds. They do not receive antibiotics, or vaccines, lest they lost their organic certification, and the birds and their meat and eggs are second to none. They are raised in flocks of hundreds and thousands, in amazing health, with miniscule losses compared to their unfortunate non-organic counterparts. There is just no worth in that industry, it's a totally false economy that helps drive both human and animal disease industry profiteers.
That's the 'within reason' part right there... In my experience it costs far less, an absolute minimum, to raise chicks with their mothers, whereas artificial brooding and rearing is time, labor and financially expensive. I don't know why some people believe otherwise, but since I raise mine freerange and on natural foods, I guess it would be different for those trying to do the same in an artificial setup, i.e. permanently caged birds. That could get expensive. I also do not feed medicated feed or vaccinate, so that helps. I don't lose anywhere near the amount of birds that those who use those so-called safeguards lose. I've never lost a single bird to cocci, never even seen it. Raw garlic is the death of that disease. I give it to newly hatched chicks in their first feed and never have sick chicks. Wonderful stuff!

Thank you so much for your time and thought process. I share your vision. I'm stepping out and am revising my farm to include a brooder house. My grandfather told me that they never had electricity when he was young. So they would put hens that loved to hatch in a special coop. When they started setting ( being broody) they would add eggs under her. This worked well for them. I'm trying this on a larger scale. We will see how it goes.

 

[LukensFarms]

Th

If they were locally available, I would pay lots more for broody raised chicks.  I feel they are wiser, healthier, and more likely to make good parents themselves.  I think the connection with a live parent is highly likely to be beneficial.  And... I would be unlikely to buy more than a couple of chicks at a time, to add to a productive but aging flock, so increased cost would not be that significant.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Do you think it would bother people not to start out with a fluffy chick? Instead having a small juvenile bird that is already feathered?

 

[LukensFarms]

I believe that instinct to forage is in their genes but I also think that animals learn through a show and tell system. So yes I would think they survive better. Emotional connection is important for any creature. That may be why they bond so easily with us. You might find a market for hen raised chicks but five times as much I don't think is not likely. On the other hand There are people that will build a $2000.00 coop for three or four hens. Nothing is too good for their pets. I will end with this sorry note. I see more and more deformed and sickly chicks coming from for lack of a better term hatching factory's. You just may have hit on something NEVER TRY AND YOU NEVER FAIL!!

Thanks for your reply. I think A higher quality can be achieved by doing it the old fashioned way. I've read some studies that you can make a flock less productive by allowing broody hens to keep a flock going. However I believe a person can always add specific eggs to the hen so you can maintain. Certain breeds that perhaps don't go broody as often.

 

[Rich386]

Start small and give it a shot.
Like you I am selling what I think are the best products on the market. I believe that they are fairly priced and can only hope that others see it that way. Some times we have to do things on principals in spite of the profit margins.
Good luck

 

[chooks4life]

Thank you so much for your time and thought process. I share your vision. I'm stepping out and am revising my farm to include a brooder house. My grandfather told me that they never had electricity when he was young. So they would put hens that loved to hatch in a special coop. When they started setting ( being broody) they would add eggs under her. This worked well for them. I'm trying this on a larger scale. We will see how it goes.

You're welcome, and best wishes with that. Glad to see you received so many positive responses to your question. Another thing is that mother's saliva, consumed by the young as she feeds them tidbits, carries micro fauna and flora which will give them a healthy population to ensure they digest food well and resist the over-proliferation of bad bacteria and intestinal fauna/flora which is responsible for much chick mortality. They give these diseases names which give no indication that the root issue is 'lack of sufficient colonization by intestinal microfauna and flora'.

I've read some studies that you can make a flock less productive by allowing broody hens to keep a flock going.

I have read some too, but in the ones I read they mostly blamed the extra space supposedly needed, and this prime nugget of misinformation kept cropping up: 'the hen will eat the chick's food, which is a costly waste' --- many variations on that one were printed. In my opinion, if the diet was supplying what she needed, she wouldn't take from her chick's food; plus bad breeding leads to poor feed conversion, none of which is a reason to not raise chicks with hens.

Since I feed chicks a minced but basically identical ration to the adult chooks, it's not a waste, and the extra protein I boost chicks with during heavy population times (when the hen can't find as much insects for them) is fine for her to eat too, since she needs rebuilding from the brood so she launches quickly back into breeding and laying as soon as the chicks don't need her anymore. I guess it would be an issue for those who do not free range their chickens and feed them crumble etc. Everything's an issue when they're permanently caged, lol.

 

[LukensFarms]

You're welcome, and best wishes with that. Glad to see you received so many positive responses to your question. Another thing is that mother's saliva, consumed by the young as she feeds them tidbits, carries micro fauna and flora which will give them a healthy population to ensure they digest food well and resist the over-proliferation of bad bacteria and intestinal fauna/flora which is responsible for much chick mortality. They give these diseases names which give no indication that the root issue is 'lack of sufficient colonization by intestinal microfauna and flora'.
I have read some too, but in the ones I read they mostly blamed the extra space supposedly needed, and this prime nugget of misinformation kept cropping up: 'the hen will eat the chick's food, which is a costly waste' --- many variations on that one were printed. In my opinion, if the diet was supplying what she needed, she wouldn't take from her chick's food; plus bad breeding leads to poor feed conversion, none of which is a reason to not raise chicks with hens.

Since I feed chicks a minced but basically identical ration to the adult chooks, it's not a waste, and the extra protein I boost chicks with during heavy population times (when the hen can't find as much insects for them) is fine for her to eat too, since she needs rebuilding from the brood so she launches quickly back into breeding and laying as soon as the chicks don't need her anymore. I guess it would be an issue for those who do not free range their chickens and feed them crumble etc. Everything's an issue when they're permanently caged, lol.

incubation#Another thing is that mother's saliva, consumed by the young as she feeds them tidbits, carries micro fauna and flora which will give them a healthy population to ensure they digest food well and resist the over-proliferation of bad bacteria and intestinal fauna/flora which is responsible for much chick mortality. They give these diseases names which give no indication that the root issue is 'lack of sufficient colonization by intestinal microfauna and flora'.
I have read some too, but in the ones I read they mostly blamed the extra space supposedly needed, and this prime nugget of misinformation kept cropping up: 'the hen will eat the chick's food, which is a costly waste' --- many variations on that one were printed. In my opinion, if the diet was supplying what she needed, she wouldn't take from her chick's food; plus bad breeding leads to poor feed conversion, none of which is a reason to not raise chicks with hens.

Since I feed chicks a minced but basically identical ration to the adult chooks, it's not a waste, and the extra protein I boost chicks with during heavy population times (when the hen can't find as much insects for them) is fine for her to eat too, since she needs rebuilding from the brood so she launches quickly back into breeding and laying as soon as the chicks don't need her anymore. I guess it would be an issue for those who do not free range their chickens and feed them crumble etc. Everything's an issue when they're permanently caged, lol.[/quote]
I am going to research that micro flora. The food waste is interesting but I don't see how that can be such a big deal when so much more food is consumed by ranging.