Broody Hen vs artificial incubation

[LukensFarms]

I'm too inexperienced to have much useful input but would love to ask a question.

We seem to have an extremely low hatch rate with our broody hens.  I know that part of it is that they aren't in their own coop, they go broody in a nesting box in the main coop and then other hens keep laying eggs in there.

I mark the first few eggs. At this point all others are placed in the incubator afterwards. I always place 12 eggs under my setting hens. Typically 10 or 11 hatch. Some hens break the eggs when they are inexperienced. Call me crazy but use the farmers almanac. Hens that hatch on a full moon have a higher hatch rate.
We try to mark the first few eggs and then remove the others as they are laid but this doesn't always work. However when we try to move a hen and nest as soon as we notice she is broody, they have (so far) not adapted at all and simply broken their broodiness.  

I don't move broody hens. Instead I move them after they hatch their chicks. That is why we give them food and water in their nestbox. My grandmother ad my dad always put a blanket over the front of the nestbox of the broody hen. I do this sometimes but not always. It depends on how much the hen is getting harassed by other layers.

We are only able to move the nest after the first ones hatch. I have to move them since the main coop nesting boxes are above ground and once the babies are mobile, they fall out and can't get back up. 

Move the hen out of the box a day after she hatches. Put a tiny cup of food and water in the box. Any eggs that haven't hatched in a day should be pulled.

this summer we've had three hens go broody and here are our results:
#1 sat on about 6 eggs, had 3 healthy hatch (moved her after the first two hatched, she hatched one more in the nursery coop, then left the other eggs)
#2 sat on 4 eggs, had one hatch and after two days, left the nest to raise her baby (moved her to the nursery after the first one hatched, she kept sitting but no more hatched, removed the eggs after she left them)
#3 sat on 6 eggs, had one hatch, baby died (my fault, I put two hens with new chicks in the nursery at the same time, I think the other hen killed it), she kept sitting (put her nest back into the main coop) and a week later had another hatch. baby lived (moved her to a make shift pen) she kept on sitting, a week later another one hatched, was deformed and died. I then took the remaining eggs so she could concentrate on her one baby. 
#4 (same hen as #1) sat on 6 eggs, two hatched and are fine, she has left the other four and seems content to raise two babies. 

Your eggs are entering at different times causing delayed hatches. Only allow eggs to be incubated that are laid in the first day. Put a mark on those with a marker. Pull everything else everyday.


I'm having a hard time finding info on the best way to let broody hens have a successful nest, all info seems to be about using incubators.  I know that ideally mommy would be left alone once she goes broody, but since it's a group coop, that isn't feasible; if I move them, they don't stay broody, if I don't, the nest gets interfered with. 

I hope these comments help.

 

[LukensFarms]

I am not as experienced as many of your other responders, and weighing in a bit late perhaps, but I would like to offer my personal experiences. Having had to do my own marketing studies, I find it helpful to know who your potential buyers might be and their personal motives for purchase. My opinion to your questions: Chicks brooded by a hen are better foragers, have better survival instincts, and having been bonded with a momma hen teaches them to be a better chicken. (As adult birds, they are not better pets, however, as they lack the hand fed connection with humans...something I'm not that concerned about....they still know to run to me when I shake the treat bucket.) Would I support a commercial production of chicks natural hatched by their mothers...Yes....at 5x the current day old (?) chick price? Since I don't make the minimum order for most hatcheries (I would only be buying about 6 each spring), I am forced to buy from the local feed stores at prices of about $4 to $6 for commercial re-sells that are incubated/heat lamp brooded, possibly $8 for more specialized breeds. I would definitely consider $10 for a naturally brooded day old to three day old chick, $15 would be a bit high as I could buy a 8-12 week pullet at that price...however I would still seriously consider it as I have brought in disease with older pullets and therefore have made the personal decision to only add through hatching fertile eggs or purchasing very young chicks. At that price, I would not likely mail order as the shipping would make it impractical. However, if you would consider moving to Oregon, I'd become a regular customer.

Why would buying a naturally hatched chick be important for me? My personal experience with chicks hatched and brooded by hens (3 times now) has been absolutely wonderful. The chicks are far healthier, grow faster, are hardier, smarter, and begin laying earlier and better than those I buy at the feed store and heat lamp brood. AND I have far less integration issues when they get old enough for integration into the main flock as momma again leads the way. I am not a commercial grower, but I don't keep my birds as pets either. I keep chickens for their eggs first, enjoyment second. My family has some dietary restrictions (gluten) and eggs have become an important food source. With health issues, it is also important that the eggs and chickens are hormone/antibiotic free. I live in a semi-suburban area, still unincorporated county but surrounded by complexes..older home that the city encroached...which would not allow roosters (legal but not wise). I have a backyard set up on about 1/3 acre. Because I have some extra space, I keep enough productive laying hens to feed my family and be able to sell extra eggs to offset feed costs. (I've actually calculated my cost of raising to production rate to optimize my number of hens.) I need to refresh my flock regularly to keep my egg production up. I decided to naturally hen hatch and brood after having a coop burn to the ground (I mean to absolute ashes, you can see the photo on my member page), so no more electricity and hot lamps. But then I found the freedom and beauty of the naturally brooded method as stated above. However, it is extremely hard for me to get the fertile eggs I want at the key time my hens want to brood. What I can get locally has been "mutts" (which I have really, really enjoyed), but I would like to add color to my egg basket, and would like some more heritage type breeds who lay better in winter, so I want to get some specific purebreds. I attempted fostering chicks of 2 breeds I wanted (SLW and GLW) purchased from the feed store (commercial hatched/brooded and resold) with dismal results. I used my excellent Silkie hen who had just hatched 3 mutts and always received the fosters lovingly, but the chicks (3 successive attempts on this same hatch...for 6 chicks total over 2 weeks ) were simply not smart enough, hardy enough, nor "chicken minded" enough to brood with her in the February cold....her 3 hatchlings thrived. After much thought and observation, I basically boiled it down to the fact that the foster chicks having been incubated and heat lamp brooded simply did not know what to do to stay with her, hear her voice when she called, and were not as hardy. February is a good time for me to add chicks as I can have them laying by summer before our grey days of Oregon curtail laying. All that to say, I would be interested in locally buying day old to three day old broody hatched chicks of specific breeds that are either Mareks vaccinated (something I can't do well with my small batches) or better yet, purchase chicks from strains bred for Mareks resistance. I would mail order if the shipping costs made my per chick price of a smaller order (6 chicks) total no more than $10 each...or $60. I would place said ordered chicks under a broody hen and let her foster them to get the health and breeds I want. My perspectives. Hope they are somehow helpful. Lady of McCamley

I really appreciate your time and input. The only thing I would recommend to you for your situation is purchasing fertile eggs and put them under your silkie after you are certain she has gone broody. If coaxed with food and water in the nestbox a hen will set for about 25 days before leaving the nest if nothing hatches. I don't plan on moving to Oregon any time soon but we will always be here for so ideas. Thanks again for your thoughtful response.

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: After much thought and observation, I basically boiled it down to the fact that the foster chicks having been incubated and heat lamp brooded simply did not know what to do to stay with her, hear her voice when she called, and were not as hardy.
This is identical to my observations about chicks descended from artificially reared stock for many generations. They do not have filial instinct, just as the adults they grow into will not have paternal nor maternal instinct. Every and any other instinct pertaining to natural social and environmental behaviors and interactions are likewise stunted or misdirected or even absent. Most retain some standard level of instinct though.

 

[LukensFarms]

This is identical to my observations about chicks descended from artificially reared stock for many generations. They do not have filial instinct, just as the adults they grow into will not have paternal nor maternal instinct. Every and any other instinct pertaining to natural social and environmental behaviors and interactions are likewise stunted or misdirected or even absent. Most retain some standard level of instinct though.

This is pretty true, but with time and patience the instincts come. I have had hens set on a clutch and have poor results. The second time they do better. For instance we have a brahma who is sitting again. Her first clutch of eggs were all broken by day 21. We'll see how round two goes.

 

[Lil Mucket]

Interesting discussion! I just am now beginning my foray from backyard chicken keeping into more of a breeding mindset. I hatched out some Cream Legbars about a month ago - did half of them in the incubator and half of them I'd given to a broody hen.

She had 4 out of 4 hatch, and I had 3 out of 5 hatch. I gave all the babies to her, and she ended up rejecting one baby so I took that one and another for company and raised them in the barn in a XL dog crate.

Just yesterday I took them down to the main coop and put them in the maternity/baby run (we have a divided coop, so I'm keeping half for the chicks and the other broody hen that is sitting on more eggs).

Comparing the babies I raised vs. the babies that were raised by the hen, it's a very visible difference. The babies raised by the mom look much healthier and heartier and are bigger. The ones raised in the crate seemed quite a bit more "scraggly" looking as well as being smaller.

It's very interesting. They were all given the same feed and everything, but the main difference is that the ones raised by mom had access to the outdoors (and a MOM!). It's a smaller enclosed run with plenty of straw and we'd throw our scraps out there, so the benefit of even that was obviously very significant.

I've got more eggs being sat on by another broody hen right now as well as 6 more in the incubator. I was just thinking - if I'm going to be transitioning into breeding I may decide to intentionally use broody hens as much as I can. The chicks seem much healthier and I think they seem much more independent. Not to mention it is MUCH less work for me!

Does anybody know if there are breeders intentionally breeding chickens for broodiness? We have one broody hen that is the perfect broody - fantastic mother, and always goes broody 2-3 times per year. This is her - https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/interesting-facts-about-chicken-eggs (she's the white silkie)

She's the one who is sitting on eggs right now - she's a silkie banty, and this is her third batch this year. She's also friendly, and doesn't peck at you when you go check on her. I was thinking maybe I should get a regular size silkie rooster (or borrow one for a while) and see if she can hatch out some offspring to pass along her "perfect mother" characteristics.

Wonder if there would be a market for intentionally broody hens? She did have a baby earlier this year that was hers - half buff orp - so we'll see if that little girl gets her mom's broody tendencies. I'd love to have more like her, except maybe full size and not banty!

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Yeah, it's a very visible difference. I don't knock anyone for using an incubator but the visible difference in the results is certainly yet another reason I never intend to switch from using broody hens to an artificial incubator. You can't get out or put in later on what never went into them in the first place. Raw feedstuffs is another vital thing too many folks overlook.

Too many people also don't understand what an impact sunshine has on infants and convalescents. Every single tissue in the human body has vitamin D receptors, even in the bones and vital organs. Seeing the difference sunshine makes to recovery and growth persuades me it is more necessary than we know. People think it's just vit D but in fact there is a massive spectrum of radiation we receive from the sun, which is poorly understood. The effects are visible though.

People keep their chicks under artificial lights and raise them in houses all too often. It's a strange trend and infallibly seems to produce what used to be called 'stripling' animals. (Weedy, weakly ones). They never look good, always sub par. It's strange to me that people say they're saving on effort by using an artificial incubator... I really don't see how. It seems a lot more work than letting a hen brood and rear them. Each to their own, I guess. I can see uses for an incubator in emergencies.
Quote: There is indeed a market for broody hens and some people do deliberately maintain these characteristics in breeds. Basically only those breeding for high production of eggs or meat are vehemently anti-broody behavior. They are a large portion of the market, of course. But as is obvious, "backyard chickens" are increasingly popular, and those people with children and chooks usually seem to want their kids to experience the hen-with-chicks thing. I've sold a lot of proven mothers for people who wanted that, but often these hens are so valuable I don't part with them. They really do earn their keep and it's measurable in the future health of the chicks they raise.

It's good you've got a hen who allows your interference on the nest. After some bad experiences I cull or rehome as a layer any hen who pecks at me more than once when I go to check on the nest, because some of these hens have broken eggs or damaged chicks with their overenthusiastic pecking. I also don't breed any hen who flees the nest, screaming or not, if I approach. Such hens break eggs, scatter or harm chicks, etc with their senseless panic.
Quote: I did that with mine. If you breed a good mother, generally you'll get at least one good mother among her daughters. I don't breed bad mothers. It's entirely possible to breed a great mothering dual purpose breed that is hardy, feed efficient, lays upwards of 250 eggs a year, and fleshes easily with good type. I bred what I viewed as the best bantam characteristics into large fowl and have been quite pleased with the results. Almost all my hens are good mothers now, up from a starting percentage of maybe 5% when I first began buying chooks.

All the best.

 

[ChickenLegs13]

I broody hen raise my own chicks so I largely concur with most of the previous posts so I won't waste keystrokes parroting what others have said other than:
- Do you think an emotional connection with a chick to a hen is important in the chicks life? No, but I'm not a emotional kind of guy.
- Would you support commercial production of chicks raised only by their mothers? No, becase I grow my own.
- If a price increase of five times the current chick price was necessary in order to have hen raised chicks, do you think people would pay it? I won't even pay $3-$4 for a chick so I would not pay $20 for a chick. It would result in a huge decrease of backyard chicken farmers, IMO.

I'm too inexperienced to have much useful input but would love to ask a question.

We seem to have an extremely low hatch rate with our broody hens.  I know that part of it is that they aren't in their own coop, they go broody in a nesting box in the main coop and then other hens keep laying eggs in there. We try to mark the first few eggs and then remove the others as they are laid but this doesn't always work. However when we try to move a hen and nest as soon as we notice she is broody, they have (so far) not adapted at all and simply broken their broodiness.  We are only able to move the nest after the first ones hatch. I have to move them since the main coop nesting boxes are above ground and once the babies are mobile, they fall out and can't get back up. 

this summer we've had three hens go broody and here are our results:
#1 sat on about 6 eggs, had 3 healthy hatch (moved her after the first two hatched, she hatched one more in the nursery coop, then left the other eggs)
#2 sat on 4 eggs, had one hatch and after two days, left the nest to raise her baby (moved her to the nursery after the first one hatched, she kept sitting but no more hatched, removed the eggs after she left them)
#3 sat on 6 eggs, had one hatch, baby died (my fault, I put two hens with new chicks in the nursery at the same time, I think the other hen killed it), she kept sitting (put her nest back into the main coop) and a week later had another hatch. baby lived (moved her to a make shift pen) she kept on sitting, a week later another one hatched, was deformed and died. I then took the remaining eggs so she could concentrate on her one baby. 
#4 (same hen as #1) sat on 6 eggs, two hatched and are fine, she has left the other four and seems content to raise two babies. 


I'm having a hard time finding info on the best way to let broody hens have a successful nest, all info seems to be about using incubators.  I know that ideally mommy would be left alone once she goes broody, but since it's a group coop, that isn't feasible; if I move them, they don't stay broody, if I don't, the nest gets interfered with. 

What you need is egg mangement. The solution is simple; gather your eggs every day but hold back enough to make a clutch. Depending on how many hens you have, it may take several days to make a clutch. If nodody goes broody within 5-10 days then eat the clutch and make up a fresh clutch.
When a hen goes broody use a Sharpie to draw a line all the way around the circumference of the eggs and put them under the hen. This way when you gather eggs all you have to do is lift the hen for a quick peak and snag the new unmarked eggs. All the set eggs should hatch within several hours of each other instead of at random times like yours do. In a day or so the chicks will jump out of the nest and the hen and new chicks will nest on the floor each night until they get big enough to start roosting.

I've never had any luck moving a chicken nest & hen. The hen always starts pacing the new pen wanting to get back to her original location. Perhaps you can section off the setting hen with chicken wire or do what chooks4life said. And if I leave her in the main coop, then I have the same problem like you said with the other big footed hens stomping around in the nest and breaking eggs.