Buckeye Breed Thread

[poltroon]

Hello Everyone,

I have 24 buckeyes in the incubator (half directly from Mr. Lay), and I'm overwhelmed with interest in this breed. Me and a few other members of my 4H club have rounded up enough interest to launch our own project, and I'm currently helping everyone get settled with good stock. The end result of this project is *hopefully* snagging a few new breeders for our state and club. We're working on organizing a meeting for our project members and I certainly don't have the knowledge needed to point them in the proper direction for breeding these birds. (I have a few years expirience with Ameraucanas, not very large scale though. Biggest acomplishment I've had the honor of recieving is having a costumer snag best of class with my offspring at Farmshow. Giant congrats to them) So I was wondering if anyone breeds near me? I would absolutely love to have someone with better expirience come in and lecture for a bit. If that isn't possible, I will still be extremely grateful with recieving a list of pointers.

Thanks, Susan

Susan, this thread is fantastic with a lot of knowledgable posts, pictures, and links. It's definitely worth taking the time to start from page 1. The people here have been very generous with their knowledge and expertise.

 

[DarkRedBird]

I know there are deductions for missing toes and such but if you can have a missing toe and not be DQd, then a toe nail is no big deal.

Exactly my point. The slate bar is important. It IS in the SOP. The color is no less or more important than type. They are equally important. Funny tho it was pointed out to me that on the ABPC official website, the color portion of the SOP was left out. I would think that if a club goes through the effort to ask permission from the APA to post the official SOP, then they should post the WHOLE Buckeye Standard of Perfection. Not just the part that they find most important.

 

[LeBlackbird]

Thats great to hear Susan! It's definately a unique breed and a rewarding breed to raise. My daughter has done amazing in our 4-H program. A few pictures can be seen at www.shumakerfarmpoultry.com , southeat PA is a haul for me. There are a few good websites that are set up to help in the selection of your fowl, I would encourage you to visit them. Best of luck with the breed!!

Thank you so much for the extremely helpful link!! Your birds and your daughter are beautiful, and I'm very grateful for the information!

Can't wait to start raising these birds, so pumped for the fall/winter show season!

Poltroon, Will definitely do! But, I need to grab a cup of coffee and get comfortable first

So many pages!

 

[cgmccary]

Exactly my point. The slate bar is important. It IS in the SOP. The color is no less or more important than type. They are equally important. Funny tho it was pointed out to me that on the ABPC official website, the color portion of the SOP was left out. I would think that if a club goes through the effort to ask permission from the APA to post the official SOP, then they should post the WHOLE Buckeye Standard of Perfection. Not just the part that they find most important.

No, I think the page just did not get uploaded, an error that the second page is not there & Laura will have to upload it. Most of us have SOPs so we don't have to look at a site for the description. I have 8 SOPs from 1910 to the present. My point is that the SOP says a slate bar should be in the back but does not require it or make it a DQ if it is not there,. There is a reason that the slate bar in the back is NOT a DQ or the SOP does not require it. I don't know the reason.

Monte Bowen, a longtime breeder of Javas once said that he'd rather have a purple Java with good type than a pefectly colored Java with poor type (and he said the purple one would be a Java just with wrong color whereas the Java with poor type really wasn't a Java)-- i.e. body type makes the bird. Color is important, yes, and is easiest to see, easiest to correct on a solid colored bird. As any good breeder will tell you, breed for (1) TYPE, (2) TYPE and (3) TYPE. My birds are for the dinner table first, and the shows are just for fun. If I don't have a decent carcass on the table, then whether or not they have a great slate bar is not going to matter or if they are orange or white or blue -- they are for meat first, at least for me. I'm glad mine do well at the shows too . . . but for me, that is just for fun: to put the Buckeye in the public eye, to get others' opinions and to meet other breeders.

Have you shown your Buckeyes, DarkRedBird? If yes, how did your Buckeyes do at the show(s)? Pics of your birds? Show us. I like to see others' flocks.

 

[Blueface]

Exactly my point. The slate bar is important. It IS in the SOP. The color is no less or more important than type. They are equally important. Funny tho it was pointed out to me that on the ABPC official website, the color portion of the SOP was left out. I would think that if a club goes through the effort to ask permission from the APA to post the official SOP, then they should post the WHOLE Buckeye Standard of Perfection. Not just the part that they find most important.

As much as I'd like to agree from a BREEDERS standpoint, a JUDGE unfortunately will not see it that way. Body is a very important to a buckeye....goes with that whole dual purpose perspective. Much of the overall credit for the breed (in the judges eyes) is put into the body and color is secondary......that is just the way it is..........BUT.........and that is a HUGE BUT................the color is the first thing you see when you walk up to the pen and I feel that it definately sets a tone! Everyone here knows my point of view........I haven't been suttle! From a breeders standpoint.......color is just as important because it is what helps make the buckeye. The two go hand in hand I feel........this is what I've taken away from the creators writings....she was quite avid about the appearance of her birds especially in comparision to the RIRs. She wanted to set the two breeds apart using the color...Metcalf wanted the darkest red birds (at that time) that shined like a dark garnet in the sun and were nearly black in the shade.............Now I know times have changed. But according to the SOP....body is the most important due to the dual utility of this family of poultry.........But the BREEDERS should focus on both mutually................IMO. It can be done.

 

[Tailfeathers]

I've been to a few shows where the judge makes three marks on the coop card. There will either be a check, check plus, or check minus for Type, Color, & Condition; respectively.

 

[knittychickadee]

Without the slate bar, they look orange. And if breeders don't have a slate bar, the offspring won't either.

I haven't found either one of these statements to be true in breeding Buckeyes, and I've hatched and grown out a lot of birds. Have you started breeding your Buckeyes yet? When you start breeding and get some birds on the ground, you'll see everything isn't so set in stone.

One of my lightest birds had tons of almost black slate, and I've had a dark red bird with no slate whatsoever, just a deep red undercolor. I've also not found it to be true that both breeders must have the slate to have offspring with slate.

 

[DarkRedBird]

If you have no slate undercolor in any breeders, it won't magically appear. In general the lack of undercolor will leave you without the shine in the sun. Yes you will have a darker and lighter both with and without the slate bar. And yes I have buckeyes on the ground. And in their coops too. I am not here to argue. The point is that the slate bar is in the SOP. Saying it isnt necessary if you have good type is ridiculous. Again, color, undercolor, type, and "heart girth" is all possible with good breeding. I too am breeding for eggs and meat. But it's possible to get good production, nice big carcass, and have the proper color and undercolor all at the same time.

 

[knittychickadee]

If you have no slate undercolor in any breeders, it won't magically appear. In general the lack of undercolor will leave you without the shine in the sun. Yes you will have a darker and lighter both with and without the slate bar. And yes I have buckeyes on the ground. And in their coops too. I am not here to argue. The point is that the slate bar is in the SOP. Saying it isnt necessary if you have good type is ridiculous. Again, color, undercolor, type, and "heart girth" is all possible with good breeding. I too am breeding for eggs and meat. But it's possible to get good production, nice big carcass, and have the proper color and undercolor all at the same time.

Yes, you can breed two birds with no slate and still get some offspring with slate. It isn't magic, its just a recessive gene . And see, you're coming around. First you said if they don't have slate they look orange. Now you're agreeing that they can be dark or light with or without the slate. It helps if you've actually seen this in person instead of just listening to others saying orange looking Buckeyes probably have no undercolor.......
I've never had a Buckeye that didn't shine no matter what the shade, hens included. That's proper feeding and care. Now one place the slate does make a difference that I have seen is in the richness of color. That lighter bird I mentioned above that had the very dark slate, even though he wasn't a super dark red, his red was very rich. BTW, heart girth IS something that's difficult to improve on if you breed two small birds together. That's why all the actual experts say build the barn first.

Of course it's all possible with good breeding. But nobody starts with perfect birds. (You can also have a show winning good as they get bird that is horrible at throwing their good traits to their offspring, and make horrible breeders. Sometimes the less 'pretty' brother or sister is better at that. That's the fun of breeding, the trail and error.) Even Joe can tell you that he is having to work on size now, because he concentrated on other things to begin with.



I'll be back in a couple of days if you don't want to argue anymore DRB, lol. Off to Georgia to see my son graduate from Fort Benning, see you all later .

 

[AinaWGSD]

If you have no slate undercolor in any breeders, it won't magically appear. In general the lack of undercolor will leave you without the shine in the sun. Yes you will have a darker and lighter both with and without the slate bar. And yes I have buckeyes on the ground. And in their coops too. I am not here to argue. The point is that the slate bar is in the SOP. Saying it isnt necessary if you have good type is ridiculous. Again, color, undercolor, type, and "heart girth" is all possible with good breeding. I too am breeding for eggs and meat. But it's possible to get good production, nice big carcass, and have the proper color and undercolor all at the same time.

Maybe I missed something, but I don't think anyone is saying that the slate bar "isn't necessary if you have good type." I think the point that is being argued is that the slate bar isn't the only thing one should focus on when evaluating birds and choosing which birds to breed. Yes, it is possible to have it all with good breeding and breeders should strive to have it all in the same bird. Obviously if the slate bar weren't necessary it wouldn't be included in the SOP. But if you don't have good typey birds to begin with, then type and heart girth should take precedence over color. It's up to each breeder to decide what traits they need to focus on in their breeding programs to improve future generations. One person might be able to focus more on color while another may have a little more concern over setting good type first. But the end goal is the same, to have the good production, carcass, and color/undercolor all in one bird.