Buckeye Breed Thread

[WooingWyandotte]

Quote:
I don't have an incubator, so I'd be getting chicks not eggs. I think I'll purchase 5-10 chicks (Is that a good number?) and cull through them instead of getting a Trio. Because, what if during shipping one of the Trio died? Or perhaps I get three cocks?

And as I've read through this thread I noticed some people talking about 'high protein game bird feed'? Said it was because Buckeyes have a lot of meat on their bones and need protein to grow out properly. Funny thing is, I have a Buckeye hen that (hatchery bird) is pretty thin, I was thinking about giving her game bird feed since it has more protein? She's also moulting and it's nearly winter, so that could also be why she's thin, just a passing thought to give her that kind of feed.
Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Jake Levi]

I buy Turkey Starter for my new chicks, higher protein and they get great growths on it. I am starting 3 in a couple weeks, special trio.

Buying a trio of older birds is less a gamble, more money, otoh, the ratio over numbers works out pretty close to 55-45% in favor of roos. But in small numbers you get what you get. I would suggest ten to twelve, and you can thin them out as they grow, if you want a trio or quad you can make great picks.

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
I don't have an incubator, so I'd be getting chicks not eggs. I think I'll purchase 5-10 chicks (Is that a good number?) and cull through them instead of getting a Trio. Because, what if during shipping one of the Trio died? Or perhaps I get three cocks?

And as I've read through this thread I noticed some people talking about 'high protein game bird feed'? Said it was because Buckeyes have a lot of meat on their bones and need protein to grow out properly. Funny thing is, I have a Buckeye hen that (hatchery bird) is pretty thin, I was thinking about giving her game bird feed since it has more protein? She's also moulting and it's nearly winter, so that could also be why she's thin, just a passing thought to give her that kind of feed.
Thank you so much for your help!

You don't need it for your hen at this point, she's an adult and is probably not going to help her gain a lot of weight. Buckeyes do best when fed a high protein feed for about the first 8 weeks, so do the game bird starter for your chicks.
Mitch

 

[Jake Levi]

She could also need worming. Going into winter it is a good idea to worm the whole flock.

 

[cgmccary]

Tailfeathers: I have a question for you. This stems from my very poor memory and thinking that I somewhere read that the Buckeye had the "darkest Mahogany Red color" of any breed. I don't have a clue where I saw that but that is what sticks in my head. Then I read your article which says that the Buckeye is not as dark as the RIR.

So from there I went to the SOP. Interestingly enough, there are two different colors presented for the RIR - the SC being much darker than the RC. And the RC being similar in appearance to the Buckeye. Of course the written description is not much of a help. So I Googled "Mahogany Bay" in an attempt to see what that color looks like. Interestingly enough, this http://ultimatefowl.wordpress.com/category/heritage-breeds/ came up in my search.

I believe many of my Buckeyes have been turning out too light of a red so I've been striving to breed only the darkest colored birds that fit all the other attributes of a Buckeye. I've been trying to get my birds to look at least as dark as the color of the cock you show and maybe even a bit darker although that is one nice looking Buckeye. In fact, I don't know what it is about my birds but it seems all my breeds need better leg color. I wish mine were as good as the one pictured. Anyways, this is not meant as a criticims but rather only as a comparison, I've been culling the birds that have the color of the females shown in the link above.

So, my question to you is, just what is the ideal "dark Mahogany Bay" color? I know color is secondary to type but type-wise I'm doing pretty well - IMO. I need to work on the leg color like I said and I think I remember seeing a few birds out there that are off-colored eyes but other than that the only thing I see a lot of in my culls is black showing up in the plumage throughout.

So anyways, just thought I'd ask if you could address this color question.

Interesting you bring up color as that topic seems to dominate in discussions. A SQ RIR (show quailty Rhode Island Red) should be darker than a Buckeye. In comparison to the Buckeye, a SQ RIR will appear to have a dead brown color. In contrast, a Buckeye will have more of a reddish glow. The best way to describe a "mahogany bay" is to say look at the color of a buckeye nut. As you are aware, buckeye nuts vary individually and on the nut itself. I have a 1910 SOP and in it are some color plates that are printed on very good quality paper so that the color has held up well over 101 years. It shows the difference between red, reddish bay, bay and mahogany bay. If any of you are evr going to be in my vicinity (show), let me know and I will bring it & show to you.

The pictured male you link is the proper color. In fact, he remains the best male I have seen. I acquired him from Don Schrider in 2007. Don hatched out 1200 Buckeye chicks that year and kept only a few males so perhaps 10 males out of about 600. That male has been my magic bullet ever since. The male I just acquired from Don this past weekend is not the proper color and his color is more like a RIR but he has great body type. The body of a Buckeye is very different from a RIR and you can mostly discern this my handling the bird and knowing what he should feel like.

You should NEVER cull a Buckeye female based upon color. The pullet's body is the MOST important aspect. Second, I'd argue that the shape of her feathers on her back / rump (more rounded than pointed) and her eveness in color (its uniformity). In fact, expect most of your females to not be the best of color. The Buckeye is a male-line breed; the creator, Ms. Metcalf, said as much herself -- she said she liked the male's color and got the females as good as she could get them. The male also contributes two genes to color while the female gives only one (so another reason not to cull females for color). The female gives her sons their body. John Brown (Brown strain) argues that the female makes the type, and the male makes the color. Because folks are culling very good bodied Buckeye pullets for color, I am seeing more and more pullets with RIR bodies. For those of you who saw, the Claire Slomski pullet at Indianapolis was a pleasant surprise. She had the nice wide hips, good heart girth and heavy skull. She was a little too dark but her color was even.

Color is the easiest thing to correct. Don Schrider knows this and that is why he is not worried about his color. Some people also dismay about specks of black on the tips of the feathers. This can be caused by the grain and moisture in the grain at the time the feather is growing (and have nothing to do with genetics). A hen's hip bones not being turned in but being straight is important and how thick the ends are and the spread/ finger width between keel and hip. I choose my hens mostly on their shape and never on color. For example, my best pullet this year had green hackle feathers. There are some very respected breeders who would cull her just for that reason but evaluating her, she had the best body of any I bred this year. She was also the lightest one I had this year; I did not take her to sell in Indinapolis (although I did sell / trade at least 3-4 very high quality pullets. The other were not bad.

It is OK if others want to disagree with me. It is a matter of opinion.

Chris McCary​

 

[Blueface]

Chris, good points.....In the october 1917 issue of the poultry success. An article was written by Mrs. Metcalf herself that states in her own words and I quote "Now the difference (between the RIR and buckeye) is summed up in this way briefly: The Buckeye should be as much darker in color than the accepted Rhode Island Red as the Rhode Island Red is darker than the buff breeds. Their plummage should be as dark as to male as to look almost black in some lights, garnet-red being as near as description as I can give."

She goes on to say the comb should be small and close fitting to the head. The weight should be much greater than is apparent from the size; 8-9 lbs was prefered due to the density from the cornish game introduced.

 

[cgmccary]

Great quote Bluface as "garnet red" was given in the earliest Buckeye descriptions (and was in the early SOP description.

I would add that the RIR of 1917 was much lighter than the exhibition RIR of today. Many us believe the Buckeye contributed to today's RIR being darker. Today's RIR (exhibition) is darker than the Buckeye.

 

[Jake Levi]

Thanks for the good info gentlemen, it dovetails what I have learned from other breeds , that the male can set the color, and the female sets the type.

 

[Blueface]

I would agree that the RIRs are much darker (almost chocolate) in appearance. I always hold a buckeye nut (we have buckeye trees everywhere on our farm) as a judge for color. Making sure that black surface feathers are not present.

In the same article....she said and I quote;" ....with the very darkest of red plummage, hens containing some black not being objectionable to me so long as the males kept that dark red shade I admired." .......


That would lead me to beleive that she liked the hens to be darker in color. Chris, what are your thoughts? I've only been breeding these "things" for roughly 4 years now. What knowledge I do have has come from Mr. Brown.
I've bred American Game and Aseels for the last 15 years. Nearly 100% of the time. The cockerels take after their mothers and the pullets take after the cock bird.

 

[Blueface]

It's interesting when you search the color Rich/Dark Mahogany bay on the net. The color itself seems very dark, nearly brown. In fact, most sites give the buckeye nut the color of chestnut brown. Seems to me that we are very nearly splitting hairs. I was at the crossroads on Friday morning and spoke with Mr. Brown on Saturday afterward he got back in town.......I thought the birds all looked nice, good and healthy. There seemed to be sufficiant variations in type, size and heads, but I'm not expert. Mr. Brown told me that he thought the colors were not dark enough in the majority. And if the breeders are going back and forth on the color, how are the judges going to know what is correct? One judge speaks to one breeder and another judge speaks to a different breeder with differing views.....I guess what I'm getting at is......Will there ever be uniformity in judging for this breed amongst judges? That goes a long way in how a person selects brood stock.