Buckeye Breed Thread

[007medic]

Quote: I've noticed that Urch birds have several admirable qualities. 1) Their combs tend to be uniform and classically pea-type. 2) Urch birds tend to the red spectrum of "Mahogany Bay"-- think of a fine piece of 'flame' mahogany and you have a general idea of the gradation of color. The color tends to appear highly saturated on Urch birds which may be largely due to the fact that so many Urch birds have a good slate bar. 3) Of all the Urch birds I've seen (and I've seen a few), I've noticed on the hens and pullets a tendency for great skull structure and nice type-y square outlines to their bodies.

J

 

[bigzio]

I have my own opinion in regards to some advice you have been given 4H mom....The cross beek is indeed hereditary and due to it being severe....It's a cull to save future starvation, and suffering, and is not a breeder anyway.

I have the same line....it's not a incubation problem....these are critical breeds and far from perfect in every respect, they all aren't show birds.

This is a wonderful breed and I'm culling all the cross beeks. I've seen them in the last 3 hatches and expect more in the future til I have this solved...( if it's at all possible)...in my opinion.

bigz

 

[bigshawn]

I have my own opinion in regards to some advice you have been given 4H mom....The cross beek is indeed hereditary and due to it being severe....It's a cull to save future starvation, and suffering, and is not a breeder anyway.

I have the same line....it's not a incubation problem....these are critical breeds and far from perfect in every respect, they all aren't show birds.

This is a wonderful breed and I'm culling all the cross beeks. I've seen them in the last 3 hatches and expect more in the future til I have this solved...( if it's at all possible)...in my opinion.

bigz

Is this a buckeye problem (crossed beek) as a whole or certain lines??

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:
I have Urch birds and have seen only ONE cross beaked bird (a female), but it was a incubator hatch that had a spike in temperature early for a long enough duration (which I caught but not in time) -- most did not hatch -- those that did hatch had crooked toes, unhealed navels (I culled), wry neck (I culled) and the one crossed beak (I kept her). At the same time, I hatched under hens from the same breeding group and did not have one crooked toe NOR have I since (and a friend hatched from the same group and had no problems).

Also, intentionally, I bred the one crossed beaked hen and and then the progeny and have had no more cross beaks. I believed this was the case (that it was environmental) but have confirmed it with hen hatches where there are NEVER any deformities and with hatching from this hen. If you are having this occur regularly, then I suggest you check your incubator technique as that is where the problem lies. No strain/ line of anything produces all SQ birds of a breed & you should not expect the same. If a crossed beaked hen had good hip width, keel to hip width, otherwise good body traits,etc. I personally would not cull her based on what I have seen (she would go in my laying flock at least). I would never keep a male with a crossed beak because he would not be able to breed a hen since they would have to grab a hen by the neck in covering her (and I have too many superb males to tolerate ANY abnormality whatsoever). However, good hens in body type are like gold. I would also never tolerate a fault twice in the same lineage.


Quote from "The New Incubation Book" by Dr. A.F. Anderson Brown: If I had not seen the evidence in hen hatched birds (which I prefer) vs. my incubator hatched birds, I might still be questioning whether it was genetic. I have had my share of stupid incubator problems over the years (if you can imagine it, I have done it). Again, this is just my experience in breeding Buckeyes since 2006. I got stock from Duane Urch which I find the hens to be strong in body type, color can be lighter in the hens and can get small if you do not breed for large size. At least in mine, any crooked toes and such have proved to be an incubator issue. I was told this by more than long-time breeder as well. More reason that I love having broody hens (one is due to hatch out her brood this weekend).

 

[bigzio]

I don't disagree with what you are saying. Your situation is prolly due to bator problems for the most part. The cross beek you have must not be very severe...or it would be anemic and should be culled.
I stand by the fact that cross beeked is hereditary. The two different Sportsmans that were used to hatch my eggs are not the problem....one needs to also consider this to be a recessive gene and not show it's face every hatch.
It's a fact 4H mom has a crossed beek chick....blame the incubator if you want.....like I said...I beg to differ.....I'm setting eggs April first, so we will see.

Best Wishes, bigz

 

[JoAnn_WI_4-H_Mom]

I appreciate all the advice in the forums and in the PM. It is always good to have the voice of varied experience to listen to.

As they are still very young, we will wait to make any final decision. I have checked the other birds carefully, so this appears to be a lone case (so far).

I also have broody hens and an incubator. In the Speckled Sussex, I usually have 1 crooked toe from the incubator batches, but have never had one from the hens. I have decided there is a hot spot in the 'bater and I am trying to determine which spot it is, while encouraging broody hens.

I will try to trim the beak to see if we can make the bird more comfortable. It is likely the bird will be butchered when it reaches a certain size, as I have a rather livestock attitude about these things.

An issue when raising birds with sensitive children is they tend to become attached to any individual they can tell apart from the rest of the mob in the brooder. I try to make birds with defects disappear before the kids can note them, but I missed this one somehow. Now they will notice if he is missing one morning {sigh}.

 

[BuckeyeDave]

Our first hatch of the season. I sure do love hearing the peeps of chicks again.

 

[Pathfinders]

Hi folks,

Sorry I've been so AWOL of late, work keeping me crazy busy and the BYC notifications just weren't coming in.

IRT cross beaks, I think you're both right.

In my experience, the majority of them come from incubator issues. However, I have run across lines of birds that seem to have the problem as a heritable fault (Silkies in particular, with their weird skulls.)

So while for the most part I think it's a temperature problem during incubation, I do agree that from time to time it can be a genetic fault.

Is that ambiguous enough for y'all?

That also being said, I have purchased Urch birds for several years (this is the first year in about three I didn't get any Buckeyes from him) and have never once seen a crossbeak bird, in the chicks I got or their offspring. So I would consider this a temperature anomaly, rather than a genetic problem.

And also fwiw, yes, Duane's birds are expensive, but remember, you're paying for 50+ years of experience with Buckeyes. To me, that's priceless.

(I am behind hatching this year as well, just set my first hatch this past weekend. Good thing too, with the storms we had in KY this month!)

 

[cgmccary]

Hey Laura & Dave:

I am behind on hatching too. I had a Game hen to hatch some this past Saturday (St. Patrick's Day) -- my first of the year. I had waited until she had sat hard for about three days before removing her Game eggs and replacing with Buckeye eggs. I set 9 Buckeye eggs under her-- all from the same breeding pen so as not to get crossed up. She hatched 8 of the 9 Buckeye eggs and one chick smothered under her after hatch leaving her with 7 Buckeye chicks & ONE Game chick she managed to AGAIN (she did last year too) lay one more egg of her own so she has 8 chicks -- I always say, "nature always finds a way . . ."

The Game hen had her nest in the Tractor pit and blocking her way was a Goose and her nest. Early Saturday, I broke up the Goose nest and blocked her out of the way giving the chicks a little built-in pen. Sunday morning, I heard a Goose screaming like something was getting her. I ran down toward the noise and found the Goose had somehow made her way into the "tractor pit" with the Game hen and her chicks -- I don't have to say that the Goose was screaming for a reason -- I had to help her out of the pit. Those Game hens will tear you up over their chicks.

Chris

 

[Pathfinders]

LOL those gamebird females are EVIL! I once saw a bantam OEG in a cage on champion row one time who was cooped next to a huge LF Langshan. It was hysterical, she was doing her best to get through the bars to kill that bird, and he was cowering over on the other side of his cage with fear. Just too funny to watch!