Building Permits

[GreenBabe5]

So Chickens are legal where I live but a lot of don't tell going on. Anyway to avoid any neighbors complaining (only two houses left i'm worried about since we don't speak to them) i decided to do the safe thing and get a permit to build my coop.

So i filed for my new/repaired fence and a "Pet/Shed and Run". There is an awful 5 ft from property guideline which means the coop will stick out but i'm more worried my description of Pet/Shed and Run will get me in trouble when they come to inspect. I mean it's a shed with pets so it's true. Anyways the permit was just filed Monday so i won't hear back until Friday or later.

Has anyone else filed for a permit and had issues with their coop even though chickens are legal?

 

[HandsomeRyan]

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is? As long as you are within the guidelines of what is legal (ex. correct distance from property line) then there should be no reason for them to deny you the permit.

We did not need a permit because our coop is less than 200²ft and does not require a permanent foundation or utilities. I believe there are some sort of rules here about setback from property line and neighboring buildings (I think 25ft and 50ft respectively) but since my coop is in the middle of my rather large back yard and both neighbors don't care that I have chickens it wasn't an issue for us.

Good luck. I admire you for trying to keep things legal from the start rather than just doing it and hoping you don't get caught like many folks.

 

[4 the Birds]

IMHO it is always best to be very general with descriptions and dealing with city officials. If I submitted a permit then it would have been listed as a storage shed. In our area, moveable sheds without a foundation do not need to be permitted. Who is to say what is moveable?

I would be extremely surprised if anyone came out to inspect your shed build or what you decide to put in the shed. Since chickens are allowed at your location then build it the required set-back and you should be good to go.

 

[40angst]

I agree, don't tell the gov't any more than absolutely necessary. We are also zoned that anything without a permanent foundation doesn't need a permit. Heck put fake wheels on it so you can tell them it is moveable!

 

[GreenBabe5]

I agree, don't tell the gov't any more than absolutely necessary. We are also zoned that anything without a permanent foundation doesn't need a permit. Heck put fake wheels on it so you can tell them it is moveable!

I really like that idea! My main concern is i've read stories of others following the law that got denied because they changed the use of their property by raising chickens...I'm thinking i'll build it to their specs and setbacks but put wheels on it. That way if there is something I missed i can just say it's moveable! (even if its not). It's been just 5 business days so i hope i hear back from them tomorrow. The chicks are 6 weeks today so i really really really need to get them out of this garage!

 

[GreenBabe5]

UPDATE: Well the very little info wasn't enough because they drafted it as a cement padded shed with dog run. So i had to tell them its for chickens. And then i got transferred all around. So i spoke to the Zoning guy who did the run down he usually does about chickens "personal use only, noise ordinance, cleanliness" but for my coop he said it can't be called a shed so it would be an accessory building which would be up closer to the house with a 25' setback. I said okay i can do that but what would have been invisibile to the neighbors due to the fence and their yards back corner trees and no people go to those areas would now be visible from the front yard and under neighbors windows. He basically said that's where accessory buildings go.

I explained it would be movable, no cement pad etc. He still argued. So then i asked well then if it was a rabbit hutch would i need a permit and he said "hm....no" . I asked so why is this different than a dog house or hutch then? and if its not a shed then a permit isn't really needed. He responded "you have a point". He then went on to tell me he is just a rubber stamp guy and can't make those decisions but will speak to his boss. He said "It's your property, I"m a tax payer too and everything you told me sounds great and you should be able to do it on your property. I will see what I can do". Well he didn't meet with his boss yet so i'm hoping for today.

I've gone out to the yard and will put it right smack near the house and front fencing but I anticipate more complaints that way but we'll see what happens today.

I've been all stressed since Friday. Darn chickens are getting big and I really need to get to building. I did tell the guy "Look, this is happening so whatever hoops I end up through I'll do it" and he responded "I appreciate your determination, it's a good quality".

He also noted that "been a lot of chicken calls lately" , I just laughed and said you should get some.

 

[GreenBabe5]

I received a letter in the mail I am denied the housing of chickens as either a shed or an accessory building. They say i must request a variance of use to house chickens, approved by the entire board. Even though keeping them for personal use is allowed apparently i can't let them have a place to live. So i sent a rather long email asking them to reconsider if i need a permit at all and showed them examples of the current world of rabbit hutches and how similar they are to coops....i think i'll just end up building or buying one anyway and just deal with it. Considering a rent to own coop at this point and losing lots of money so that if they come make it go away I can always return it.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I received a letter in the mail I am denied the housing of chickens as either a shed or an accessory building. They say i must request a variance of use to house chickens, approved by the entire board. Even though keeping them for personal use is allowed apparently i can't let them have a place to live. So i sent a rather long email asking them to reconsider if i need a permit at all and showed them examples of the current world of rabbit hutches and how similar they are to coops....i think i'll just end up building or buying one anyway and just deal with it. Considering a rent to own coop at this point and losing lots of money so that if they come make it go away I can always return it.

It may well be that a permit for what you plan is not needed. In my city you only need a permit for buildings that are in excess of 200 sq ft or taller than 8', or if you are connecting plumbing or electricity.

First find out what does and does not need a building permit. You almost certainly cannot get a permit for something that does not need one, and that may be why you were denied.

Your best bet is to go down and talk with someone who is familiar with building permit requirements. Also, make SURE that you ARE legal, both in city and zoning code to have chickens on your property.

 

[GreenBabe5]

The same guy who previously told me they were okay (zoning administrator) for personal use has now changed his story and since they are not specifically listed as pets like cats or dogs, i need a use variance to raise them. He also got sneaky and said "this is the first thing you got in writing" (implying the previous verbal conversations were moot)

The Variance is 300 plus a 700 escrow, fees to notify neighbors and the newspaper along with various other site fees, must be set up for the township to access. I could start with an appeal variance asking for a reversal of the portion of the letter stating i need a use variance. I'm kinda freaking out and need to work this out. the Appeal is 100 plus 300 in escrow (no need to notify the papers for that). But if i want to go straight for the use variance its a lot of money and they can still deny it.

I said to the guy, so i can have chickens but not house them and he said "well maybe you can't have them after all". Another week later he responded to a message i sent months ago before speaking to someone on the phone, this request for info was via email that said "you need a use variance to raise chickens in your yard, this request is closed"

Here is everything i found, i mean everything i found in our zoning and ordinances and code, including minutes and resolutions back to 1920s. The word chicken only comes up a hand full of times, all but two times they come up referring to food stores, livestock and poultry never do in reference to owning just selling.

Below is an email i sent to a lawyer recently looking for advice, who said i had a shot but they were too far and it would be too costly for me to enlist their help. (i included PDFs of the 1933 dog eats chicken suit and 1996 R1 houses rezoned but prohibited from selling chickens for meat or goods.

If anyone has any suggestions on which route i should go or If i should just go illegal and let it go until i get fined let me know.


*************************************************************


here are the codes below and here are the two links for the websites to search them.

http://clerkshq.com/default.ashx?clientsite=cherryhill-nj

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/permregs.pdf


[FONT=Calibri,sans-serif]Also going through the minutes and old resolutions there are NO mentions of any previous times chickens to be every denied in the township, even found a log from 1933 set of Minutes in which $18 was charged to a man who's stray dog caused damaged to "domestic fowl" [/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri,sans-serif]Also from 1994 some of the R1 zone was moved to A/HC Zone with the prohibited use of raising poultry for commercial sale. Nothing about for personal use was restricted and this was just 1994 that the last update was done. [/FONT]


Cherry Hill City Code 5-1.6
Chapter V Police Regulations
Mentions the owning and keeping of fowl or animal as noted by the noise ordinance
e. Animals. Owning, keeping, possessing or harboring any fowl or animal for a continued duration which, by frequent or habitual howling, barking, meowing, squawking or other noise making, causes a noise disturbance across a residential property boundary. The noise disturbance must exist for a minimum of thirty (30) minutes intermittently or ten (10) minutes consistently.

Cherry Hill City Code Pet Waste Code 17-6.4
Chapter XVII Sewer and Water
Refers to Pets as Domesticated animals
Pet shall mean a domesticated animal (other than a disability assistance animal) kept for amusement or companionship.


Also the state of NJ Department of Fish, Game and Wildlife, lists Chickens as :
Possession of Nongame & Exotic Wildlife 7:25-4.1
Refers to chickens as domesticated animals
“Wild bird” means any bird other than a native, introduced, or
feral game bird as defined in R.S. 23:4-49 and other than a
domesticated bird such as a chicken, turkey, guinea fowl, goose,
duck, pigeon or peafowl.


Adopting Ordinance
there is only requirements to regulate, sheep, goats and swine, no other mention of any regulations on animals besides horses which are listed in the Zoning Ordinances only.
Chapter VIII: Animal Control. Ordinances concerning the licensing and regulations of dogs, cats, kennels, vicious dogs, vaccination for rabies, canvass of dogs and licensing of pet shops, kennels, shelters and pounds are included within this Chapter. The loaning of animal traps to Township residents is also included; as is the regulation for keeping sheep, goats, and swine. This chapter contains revisions to refer to the "Animal Control Officer". Subsection 8-1.2 has been revised to state that the Mayor shall have the power to appoint Animal Control Officers.

 

[dringge]

Is there a local "chicken rights " organization? You cant be the first to bump into this. Its legal to have chickens but not house them? and it sounds as though you are trying to do everything responsibly. I would see if I could find some others well versed in chicken laws.
Here under 120 sq ft doesn't require a building permit but I am sure they could tell me where I am allowed to place that building.
Good luck.