Bullying, Bathing, Runts, and Handling Hens

[Farmer Viola]

I feel that I need to treat for something, but I'm not sure if vent gleet is the right thing.

Vent Gleet symptoms:

Poopbutt:
There is poop around the vent.
It doesn't smell like evil discharge; does not look yellow as I see in photos; vent does not look swollen and is not bleeding. Visual appearance could be lessened since I bathed them?
(australorp did not have this)

fluffed feathers: not permanently. they fluff themselves sometimes.

hunched appearance: both chickens are perky, not hunched, tails up.
(australorp had this)

partially closed eyes: no.
(australorp had this)

head tucked under a wing: no.
(australorp had this)

sitting or standing on the ground rather than roost: no
(australorp had this)


Is it possible that I toned down some of their symptoms by bathing them already? I noticed Lightning's belly is beginning to fill in with feathers where previously bare/pink!!

Would you treat for vent gleet with this list of symptoms? Also remember that the Australorp died and IMO she had more of these symptoms than anyone. Her butt wasn't poopy though..

What else could it be?

 

[Farmer Viola]

Question.. I know new birds are to be quarantined for 4 weeks for illness, then penned separately but in sight of the existing flock for an additional 4 weeks. My flock has been here 3 weeks and they are 15 weeks old.

If I go back to the original seller and pick up 1-3 more birds from the same original flock, are both quarantine periods still necessary? 8 weeks seems like a long time when they are still relatively new here (3 weeks). They would have been exposed to the same potential illnesses (I could begin ACV treatment as soon as they get here).

I am considering penning the new birds near the existing coop and treating both flocks with ACV before introduction.. would there be a risk treating with ACV water and acidophilus capsule sprinkled in their food if they are not infected? I would only bathe the obviously infected 2.

 

[AmberRex]

I would definitely separate them anyway just like in quarantine. And new birds? then yeah I would apply both. It's better to be safe then sorry but if they are doing really well then you could half the second period.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Well I'm beginning vent gleet treatment for 7 days starting today. I hope it's right because they don't have all the symptoms... *nervous* ACV, acidophilus and baths never hurt, right?

 

[chooks4life]

Bully: Cersi... Is this normal? Yes, and even if you have a rooster (or ten!) there will always be a dominant hen. I pay close attention to the nastiness levels of my chooks; it breeds true, and I won't tolerate any excessively nasty chook, or one who bullies babies, sick/injured birds, or consistently attacks smaller birds. In short, there's dominant hens and roosters who dominate others of their gender peacefully, and there's those who are violent, and there's those that are just mean. Personalities also breed true. Some are bullies, whereas others can be quite protective of those in need.
Socializing hens.. is this something people do? Yes, it's a good idea to avoid snowballing other distresses into one. If you don't already talk to them, you should, it's an important method of communication between them and a natural thing they understand. We can be hard for them to read, but voice and tone is vibration and frequency which is a universal language. It makes your intentions more obvious to them, even if you're just muttering 'sweet nothings'. It's greatly valuable to have them trained to come when you call, especially by name. Chooks are surprisingly trainable.
I want them to get to know me and not fear me - is that possible? Certainly, and you're going the right way about it. Some will always be more spacky and less trusting though, some of them I work with for a few generations to get them to trust and relax. Some will only relax once they've had a near-death experience and discovered you as a rescuer, lol. Those who will not calm down despite your efforts to tame them, and those who actively incite others to panic at your presence, I would rehome. Or eat. They can do much to undermine your efforts with taming the rest. Since you'll have to treat them and handle them over their lifetimes for various things I don't really believe it's practical to not handle them. They're not cattle being raised in the outback.
...will the never-handled hen grow to hate me/humans? No. You can keep working at her by sharing treats with those who come close enough, time may calm her. With frightened or suspicious chooks it can pay to take your time and gently, indirectly tame them. They do actually learn from watching what occurs to other chooks too. Many of them benefit from being given the space to approach you when they're ready. Some are scared. Some just aren't interested. I don't care about that too much as long as it's not tending toward a feral-mindset which is actively anti-human.
-Should I try to interact with Cersi the most? Or the least? Play it by ear. I've used various methods to tame or win trust, depending on the bird's mental type, and offhand couldn't detail them to you because it's on the spot and reactive, body language and all, often just a case of being aware of whether or not I'm accidentally/potentially intimidating/threatening a chook by my position or stance or speed or trajectory; you can be walking across the yard to do another chore and some birds will take it personal if you don't pay attention to the cues they're sending and respond peacefully. Often turning your body slightly off angle can calm them as they don't feel you're about to charge, or just pause for a moment, don't make excessive eye contact to start with. Win her with treats though is usually pretty effective. You're the source of goodies and treats, and nobody ever gets hurt coming to you when you call, or somesuch idea you teach. One other thing you can do is tell her off for excessive bullying, but if she's not properly tame in the first place that could be detrimental. Once she trusts you though you can take the dominant stance without frightening.
Bathing: I wouldn't except for in extreme circumstances, even for a poopy butt. Once it's out of its down, and into real feathers, it can have its coat damaged by bathing, as well as the fact that it's not a species that naturally gets soaked. I'd use scissors and cut off any huge stuck on lumps of poop if necessary but they can and will take care of this themselves most of the time.
Handling: Is this ok? Is it too stressful for them? For some it's stressful, but most aren't so hysterical. Chooks in general are tough birds. I don't keep those who can't --- or won't --- calm down. Sooner or later they all need to be handled. If they can't calm down about it despite you reassuring them through all your efforts to tame then they're not a good choice to breed on with unless you want spacky chooks who freak out over nothing. I handle them all regularly from hatching onwards to ensure they're partially bonded to me too, and have found comfort in my presence; just hold a chick for a little (once it's bonded safely to its mum), talk to it, etc. Later as an adult it will listen when you talk to it. It's kinder for them to feel safe with you. Happy stock are productive stock. A lot of them respond well to skin on skin contact, more than to feathers on skin. Hold them in such a way as to contact their feet with your hand, at least once in their lives. It's like a minor epiphany for some of them! lol.
Rick Ross and Cersi don't want to be caught. Leave them alone or force them? Occasionally they should be held. At the end of the day it's for their own good. I have a rule of thumb; the bird has to calm down and stop fighting/yelling in my hands, and then it has to calmly walk away from me when I release it, or it's gone. Either rehomed or eaten. This is after I've put in the necessary time to gain its trust if it were willing, etc. If a bird always rushes away from me like it's escaping a predator, that's a troublemaking attitude. If you haven't given it cause, what's it reacting to, and what use is that behaviour to you and all your other birds? It's not useful, it's anti-human, therefore actively working against all your hard work if you breed on with it and thus perpetuate it.
Do Runty and Squinter need any special treatment or just allow them to be at the bottom of the totem pole? Squinter's way of looking up at you indicates she already knows on which side her bread's buttered. Runty and Squinter will probably suck up to you and become pets of their own volition; needy birds often do, and their friendly relationship with you can net them quite a charmed life. That's all the special treatment they need for the sake of them being rejects; however their physiological reasons for being smaller and rejected may need actual looking into and tending if possible. You can't raise them on the totem pole, so don't worry about their lowly status. Health is what will raise or lower them from now onwards.
Breeds: Could she feel singled out and might that cause her aggressive behavior? Not in my experience, dominance is often an expression of the animal's health rather than a socially manipulative attempt to proactively defend themselves. Some big hens are everybody's friend, some tiny runts are everyone's worst nightmare, bosses to end all bosses; it's a measure of that individual bird's general feelings of health and attitude. Some are bent on dominance and can't cope if deposed; some roosters actually seem to give up on life if deposed.
Should I go back to the farmer and get her a Buff Orp buddy? That might be worse, introducing a chicken that late? They're only 'kids' so it shouldn't matter but for the sake of your runty charity cases I wouldn't. Sometimes I'll deliberately introduce a more dominant animal to back off an excessively harshly dominant one. If you do get more while you've got underdogs like Runty and Squinter, you'll only push them further down the social ladder, and that can distress them beyond recovery. Also, a small group of chickens can learn to like their flockmates easier.
Is her dominance because she's the largest chicken physically? Certainly not. It's not the biggest hen or rooster who dominates the others, in fact it's often a smaller one; it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. The smaller the chook, the more dominant they've been in my flock. They tend to have larger attitudes.
Death: I should have noticed the signs early, but I didn't, and I feel very guilty that she died. You shouldn't. We all wish and hope we do better but it's a learning curve for all of us. There's always something to learn. Noticing the signs doesn't guarantee anything either. Gets worse when you can reliably spot a failing chicken a mile away.... But still can't figure out how to help it.
Cats: Anyone else combine cats with chickens? Yes, but then we've got quite exceptional cats, who know we know they understand, so they don't try to pull that trick most cats do: 'obeying orders is only for dogs'. I think your cat will also respond to your wishes and respect your orders if you find a way to convince it. Cats can be even more reliable than dogs because they don't tend to be so dependent on having the rules reinforced constantly; once is often enough. We leave our week-olds free ranging with cats and all, even though one of the cats was old by the time I got chooks; they know what they can get away with, generally. So far none of the cats has harmed a single chook. We use a simple hiss like a cat to let them know to quit something immediately. But we've never had to correct them around the chooks, they just knew, somehow.

Best wishes. Your chooks would benefit from having raw garlic as part of their stale diet as well as fermented feed, apple cider vinegar, kelp, and other natural stuff. They look a bit pale. Breeder-bought birds often do. Many aren't raised free range, not a slur on the breeders who often can't for many reasons, but they don't do as well if cage raised.

 

[chooks4life]

Huge post! Heh, hope there's something useful in all that...


Quote: Don't see why unless they live in separate flocks, and if you're going to freerange them all on the same land within a few weeks there's every chance anything contagious that hadn't already spread would do so then... I rather enthusiastically cross infect among my own flocks, but judiciously, lol!

They're surprisingly pale for having been freeranging back at their hatchery! Wonder why. Anyway, best wishes. Garlic's a great antibiotic that viruses can't become immune to. Since you're obviously keen and able to research, I would recommend the books of Juliette de Bariacli Levy to you. She has one on natural health for farm and stable or something like that, it's been a great help to me over the years. It mentions vent gleet. She has some odd treatments though. About the symptoms you mentioned for your Australorp, they're rather universal, could mean everything or nothing... I don't keep australorps anymore because of the shocking incidence of leucosis. I'm sure most breeders are careful, but they just ended up among a few family lines I eradicated aggressively, including a certain mix of silkie-crossed-leghorn. Seemed to hit leucosis every time, though they were beautiful...

 

[AmberRex]

Bully: Cersi... Is this normal? Yes, and even if you have a rooster (or ten!) there will always be a dominant hen. I pay close attention to the nastiness levels of my chooks; it breeds true, and I won't tolerate any excessively nasty chook, or one who bullies babies, sick/injured birds, or consistently attacks smaller birds. In short, there's dominant hens and roosters who dominate others of their gender peacefully, and there's those who are violent, and there's those that are just mean. Personalities also breed true. Some are bullies, whereas others can be quite protective of those in need.
Socializing hens.. is this something people do? Yes, it's a good idea to avoid snowballing other distresses into one. If you don't already talk to them, you should, it's an important method of communication between them and a natural thing they understand. We can be hard for them to read, but voice and tone is vibration and frequency which is a universal language. It makes your intentions more obvious to them, even if you're just muttering 'sweet nothings'. It's greatly valuable to have them trained to come when you call, especially by name. Chooks are surprisingly trainable.
I want them to get to know me and not fear me - is that possible? Certainly, and you're going the right way about it. Some will always be more spacky and less trusting though, some of them I work with for a few generations to get them to trust and relax. Some will only relax once they've had a near-death experience and discovered you as a rescuer, lol. Those who will not calm down despite your efforts to tame them, and those who actively incite others to panic at your presence, I would rehome. Or eat. They can do much to undermine your efforts with taming the rest. Since you'll have to treat them and handle them over their lifetimes for various things I don't really believe it's practical to not handle them. They're not cattle being raised in the outback.
...will the never-handled hen grow to hate me/humans? No. You can keep working at her by sharing treats with those who come close enough, time may calm her. With frightened or suspicious chooks it can pay to take your time and gently, indirectly tame them. They do actually learn from watching what occurs to other chooks too. Many of them benefit from being given the space to approach you when they're ready. Some are scared. Some just aren't interested. I don't care about that too much as long as it's not tending toward a feral-mindset which is actively anti-human.
-Should I try to interact with Cersi the most? Or the least? Play it by ear. I've used various methods to tame or win trust, depending on the bird's mental type, and offhand couldn't detail them to you because it's on the spot and reactive, body language and all, often just a case of being aware of whether or not I'm accidentally/potentially intimidating/threatening a chook by my position or stance or speed or trajectory; you can be walking across the yard to do another chore and some birds will take it personal if you don't pay attention to the cues they're sending and respond peacefully. Often turning your body slightly off angle can calm them as they don't feel you're about to charge, or just pause for a moment, don't make excessive eye contact to start with. Win her with treats though is usually pretty effective. You're the source of goodies and treats, and nobody ever gets hurt coming to you when you call, or somesuch idea you teach. One other thing you can do is tell her off for excessive bullying, but if she's not properly tame in the first place that could be detrimental. Once she trusts you though you can take the dominant stance without frightening.
Bathing: I wouldn't except for in extreme circumstances, even for a poopy butt. Once it's out of its down, and into real feathers, it can have its coat damaged by bathing, as well as the fact that it's not a species that naturally gets soaked. I'd use scissors and cut off any huge stuck on lumps of poop if necessary but they can and will take care of this themselves most of the time.
Handling: Is this ok? Is it too stressful for them? For some it's stressful, but most aren't so hysterical. Chooks in general are tough birds. I don't keep those who can't --- or won't --- calm down. Sooner or later they all need to be handled. If they can't calm down about it despite you reassuring them through all your efforts to tame then they're not a good choice to breed on with unless you want spacky chooks who freak out over nothing. I handle them all regularly from hatching onwards to ensure they're partially bonded to me too, and have found comfort in my presence; just hold a chick for a little (once it's bonded safely to its mum), talk to it, etc. Later as an adult it will listen when you talk to it. It's kinder for them to feel safe with you. Happy stock are productive stock. A lot of them respond well to skin on skin contact, more than to feathers on skin. Hold them in such a way as to contact their feet with your hand, at least once in their lives. It's like a minor epiphany for some of them! lol.
Rick Ross and Cersi don't want to be caught. Leave them alone or force them? Occasionally they should be held. At the end of the day it's for their own good. I have a rule of thumb; the bird has to calm down and stop fighting/yelling in my hands, and then it has to calmly walk away from me when I release it, or it's gone. Either rehomed or eaten. This is after I've put in the necessary time to gain its trust if it were willing, etc. If a bird always rushes away from me like it's escaping a predator, that's a troublemaking attitude. If you haven't given it cause, what's it reacting to, and what use is that behaviour to you and all your other birds? It's not useful, it's anti-human, therefore actively working against all your hard work if you breed on with it and thus perpetuate it.
Do Runty and Squinter need any special treatment or just allow them to be at the bottom of the totem pole? Squinter's way of looking up at you indicates she already knows on which side her bread's buttered. Runty and Squinter will probably suck up to you and become pets of their own volition; needy birds often do, and their friendly relationship with you can net them quite a charmed life. That's all the special treatment they need for the sake of them being rejects; however their physiological reasons for being smaller and rejected may need actual looking into and tending if possible. You can't raise them on the totem pole, so don't worry about their lowly status. Health is what will raise or lower them from now onwards.
Breeds: Could she feel singled out and might that cause her aggressive behavior? Not in my experience, dominance is often an expression of the animal's health rather than a socially manipulative attempt to proactively defend themselves. Some big hens are everybody's friend, some tiny runts are everyone's worst nightmare, bosses to end all bosses; it's a measure of that individual bird's general feelings of health and attitude. Some are bent on dominance and can't cope if deposed; some roosters actually seem to give up on life if deposed.
Should I go back to the farmer and get her a Buff Orp buddy? That might be worse, introducing a chicken that late? They're only 'kids' so it shouldn't matter but for the sake of your runty charity cases I wouldn't. Sometimes I'll deliberately introduce a more dominant animal to back off an excessively harshly dominant one. If you do get more while you've got underdogs like Runty and Squinter, you'll only push them further down the social ladder, and that can distress them beyond recovery. Also, a small group of chickens can learn to like their flockmates easier.
Is her dominance because she's the largest chicken physically? Certainly not. It's not the biggest hen or rooster who dominates the others, in fact it's often a smaller one; it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. The smaller the chook, the more dominant they've been in my flock. They tend to have larger attitudes.
Death: I should have noticed the signs early, but I didn't, and I feel very guilty that she died. You shouldn't. We all wish and hope we do better but it's a learning curve for all of us. There's always something to learn. Noticing the signs doesn't guarantee anything either. Gets worse when you can reliably spot a failing chicken a mile away.... But still can't figure out how to help it.
Cats: Anyone else combine cats with chickens? Yes, but then we've got quite exceptional cats, who know we know they understand, so they don't try to pull that trick most cats do: 'obeying orders is only for dogs'. I think your cat will also respond to your wishes and respect your orders if you find a way to convince it. Cats can be even more reliable than dogs because they don't tend to be so dependent on having the rules reinforced constantly; once is often enough. We leave our week-olds free ranging with cats and all, even though one of the cats was old by the time I got chooks; they know what they can get away with, generally. So far none of the cats has harmed a single chook. We use a simple hiss like a cat to let them know to quit something immediately. But we've never had to correct them around the chooks, they just knew, somehow.

Best wishes. Your chooks would benefit from having raw garlic as part of their stale diet as well as fermented feed, apple cider vinegar, kelp, and other natural stuff. They look a bit pale. Breeder-bought birds often do. Many aren't raised free range, not a slur on the breeders who often can't for many reasons, but they don't do as well if cage raised.

Yep I'd say that about covers it!

 

[Farmer Viola]

Latest on the girls' vent gleet:
They have ACV water and I'm sprinkling acidophilus into their feeder a few times a day. They knock a lot of feed out onto the ground, and I sprinkle more in when I see it's gone. I spend all day at home, I work from home, so I am able to check on their food often! I sprinkle 3-5 capsules on throughout the day.. more, less?

Bathing:
I bathed the two poopybutt chickens on Sunday & Monday, and they looked SO good by Tuesday that we skipped a bath day! They were sufficiently poopy again today, so Penny and Lightning had baths. They are getting much better about the whole thing.

I liked what you said Chooks4Life about the "near death experience" and then seeing me as their "rescuer." I try to make it the least scary experience I can, I lower them very slowly into the water, I coo and talk to them, I pet them and you won't believe it.. today Lightning just fell asleep in my hand, in the bath?! HAHA! She went to sleep! She was on her side, held by my one hand, while my other hand cleaned her butt under the water.

I'm hoping tomorrow their butts will still be clean and we can skip a day, then bathe as needed (if they get poopy again).

Also, I have noticed a SIGNIFICANT improvement in the feathers around their rears! Where Lightning had no feathers, zero, zilch, she is now growing in feathers with the smallest puffs of down sticking out of them on her belly/butt. Penny looks like a different chicken! Her butt is now properly fluffed, no more caking, no more drippies. They are definitely getting better

Lightning continues to be the most affected by vent gleet with the most poop stuck on her. She has normal poops, but what is stuck on her body is always white color. Also, I spent some quality time with non-affected chickens and I take back what I said about Lightning smelling "like a normal chicken..." She stinks, let's be honest.

------------

Chooks4Life -
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!! Did I mention thank you?
No seriously. I've read and re-read your post multiple times over the past 2 days and haven't had a chance to respond yet. Thank you so much for going into so much detail, you explain things so well and really helped to put my mind at ease on certain issues!!

After your post, I decided it is time to work on taming the chickens I haven't been holding. I am noticing a marked difference in behavior with the chickens I have been bathing, so now I feel compelled to spend time with the non-affected chickens so they get to know me in the same way. Basically, if there isn't a reason for me to pick them up, I haven't been. Until yesterday, I never held Cersi or Rick Ross, but determined I brought them inside and sat in the bathroom with them.

Cersi.. oh man. Well she was freaked out at first, so I let her explore and feel "free" and what did she do.. she flew right into the bath water from the previous chickens. HAHA!! SO, she took a bath too!! Completely unnecessary, but perhaps made her feel that I was her "rescuer" by going through that ordeal? I have no idea.

After she flew into the soapy water, I dipped her in the rinse off bucket, then gave her a nice blow dry. She seemed to really enjoy it, I was so surprised! By the end of our session, she was happily sleeping in my arms, standing/laying on my hands (skin on skin like you said) and making the cutest sound.. it was like a cat purring? I just about died!! It was the cutest thing I couldn't believe she tolerated me so well. It really gave me hope. I thought she was mean, mean, mean.

I hung out with Rick Ross indoors too, but I couldn't accomplish the same type of calmness/bonding out of her. she didn't have a bath, we just hung out. I'll try again tomorrow

I'm going to keep working on socializing them individually in this way. I bring a single chicken inside the house and hang out with them in the bathroom (since it's already covered in feathers and poop). I feed them treats and pet them, I let them walk around and I practice picking them up (they always freak out, but I hope that eventually they will learn that picking up doesn't mean you're going to die). I've discovered with Cersi and Lightning that they seem to feel safe while standing on my hand, only. They don't like the ground (even with towels down - not tile). Both of them were able to fall asleep in my hand, maybe eventually the rest will, too.

I am also working on having them walk away from me calmly like you said. I let them down onto the grass while their sisters are free ranging and they slowly/calmly walk over to them. Previously they were escaping me like a predator. Just from giving treats, some of the girls come right up to me when I'm in the grass with them.

My two cats have been doing really well near the chickens, also. They seem to know not to attack them, like you said, it's weird. The cats have gotten within 2 or 3 feet of the birds and there have been no incidents. The cat doesn't act aggressive or look ready to pounce, he actually takes a non-aggressive stance and squints lovingly at them. He must know they're ours and we intend to keep them.

Paleness -
I believe their combs and waddles have gotten a lot redder since we brought them home from the farmer. It almost seems that the largest (Cersi, Penny, Lightning) are the reddest and the smallest (Runty) is the palest. Also, I noticed that their combs would go pale when they fell asleep in my arms (Cersi and Lightning) while normally they are bright red, is that normal? I swear it's true. I can easily give them fresh garlic. In addition to ACV and acidophilus, they also get table scraps (green beans, corn kernels, corn cobs) and red and green cabbage, plus mealworm treats, grass, and any earthworms they dig up (we are on 8 acres). edit: They're also primarily eating organic grain from their feeder inside the coop.

My SO is still considering wanting to add another few birds to the flock, while they're still young, and from the same original farmer/flock. I am not yet convinced that it's something we SHOULD or NEED to do. We will see...

Also.. After talking to my SO more, we came to the conclusion that the 4 Rhode Island Reds we got were the last 4 for a reason. We are obviously completely new to this and had/have no idea what we're doing. We went in knowing the breeds we wanted (brown egg layers, high producers, cold hardy) and that's what we left with. An experienced chicken owner probably could have seen that the last 4 reds were in sore shape, but we didn't. 2 were exceptionally small, and 2 were affected by vent gleet.

There were a lot of the other breeds, but we went in with a plan to get Reds and so we did. In hindsight, a larger and healthier Orpington or Plymouth Rock or Australorp might have been a wiser choice, but it's too late and here I am with my Red rejects I love them just the same!

Edit: Just bought this, thank you for the recommendation! The Complete Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable by Juliette de Baïracli Levy

 

[tlagnhoj]

Poopy butts aren't necessarily a sign of anything more than lazy pooping habits and/or bad body morphology. I have a barred rock that routinely develops the poop ball mat in the feathers just below the vent. Unless a secondary condition develops, I just leave it alone. Chickens aren't water birds. Frequent bathing has as much chance of causing problems as anything IMO. You said you felt like you should be treating for something. For what? I wouldn't advise treatment for the sake of treatment ever. I guess what I'm saying is that I would need to have a fairly definitive diagnosis before I committed to a treatment, particularly when that treatment involves non-natural components of the diet or pharmaceuticals.

Whether or not you tame your birds is a personal preference. My birds are livestock. I couldn't care less if they associate me with treats and scratches on the head, though they surely do associate me with the food. I don't have any requirement for behavior beyond NOT causing physical injury to me or the other birds. If they squawk and throw a fit when I pick them up, who cares? In a manner of speaking this helps me identify the ones that are sick. A bird that lets me pick her up without protest is a sure sign of illness in my flock.

I don't see a need to repeat the information you've gotten from others for your other questions, but did want to throw out a couple of opposing viewpoints on these issues if for no other reason than that it illustrates how beyond a few basic rules for health and safety, there are no right or wrong ways of keeping chickens. It's what your goals are, what works for you.

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: You're very welcome! I'm glad it wasn't overkill.

Quote: They do make a noise like that when happy, especially those who were raised without their mothers, I've noticed. When they make it when their eyes are closed it's a relaxed and social thing. Cerci seems she could become pretty tame at this rate. Great to hear it went so well! Sometimes meanness is just a phase. In hatchery birds that range together in flocks of babies of all ages, meanness can be the difference between that bird living or dying, for instance I doubt your red 'rejects' were ever mean enough to compete at crucial moments. When they're raised with their mothers they tend to be much more democratic and relaxed. I don't think you're overdoing it on the probiotics but I don't know what brand, species and concentration they're at, so don't take my word for that.

Quote: The power of treats can work wonders.

Sometimes I give extra scared ones treats only when they're being held, they don't seem to be able to be afraid of me and eat at the same time, no matter how hard they try, lol.

Quote: She's a strange one but by following her advice I've fixed many cases that other people wanted to cull, problems that are generally dealt with by destruction. Also, my dingo mix feral pup, born in the forest on our property, was dying of parvo when we caught him. He was a skeleton pooping water, his skull was almost half the length of his body because of how emaciated he was. I treated him naturally using her methods, and now you'd never know he was ever in such shape. (He's two now). Levy wrote books for dogs, cats, and other animals too, I'm not sure where I got the parvo treatment for but I think it was the book you've bought. Bear in mind things were different back then, for instance in one of her later books she advises using asbestos mats and talc powder, which we now know are dangerous, and in the book you've got she advises dusting with tobacco, but she was referring to natural tobacco, not the chemicalized stuff people smoke. But overall she's been an invaluable source of information on herbs and healing animals as opposed to slaughtering.


Quote: I used to go along those lines too, but have found that often if the illness is advanced enough to 'calm' a spacky or antisocial bird, it's quite 'late in the day' so to speak, and often the illness is advanced by the time it quietens a wild one. Since that I've been handling them regularly enough to enable them to be calm about it, though how you do it is possibly even more important than how often you do it. The bird's got to get the right end idea from the interaction. I find it easier in general for treatment of any sort to maintain a level of tameness, but I do agree, there's no strict right or wrong, it's what works for you. Also I've had some scratches from those who throw fits that weren't overly pleasant so don't appreciate that behaviour.