Bullying, Bathing, Runts, and Handling Hens

[Farmer Viola]

Looking at the photos I've taken it's clear she was doing better (standing/walking) and now is just barely hanging on. Here are some pictures from this morning.

This is what she was doing that upset me so much. Not able to stand up.


After honeywater, after clipping and cleaning the foot wound:


This is showing the earlobe that did have nustock on it. This is after some dead skin came off the earlobe and left it looking red/raw. You can also see the neck abscess with scab and the yellow is from the nustock.


I just keep checking to see if she's still breathing..

You said to give her a place to sleep on the ground, she has a box inside her pen with cedar shavings, but she seems to prefer not to be in it. I thought it would make her feel more safe. It's about 75 degrees inside our house, should I give her a heater or anything? Outdoor temps here are 50 at night and 80 during the day, so 75 shouldn't be too far from normal for her.. not sure if me holding her for body heat is better or not. I wouldn't want to be alone, I guess.

 

[Farmer Viola]

She made it through the night! I honestly thought it wasn't possible. She's more alert today, standing up and walking around!!!!!

I fed her honey/herb/silver water this morning. Going to give it to her once more today, then again at night. She pooped pure water a few times today, and I also saw some VERY small amounts of brown poop which means she ate something while I wasn't looking...

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Well, it's always difficult to say for sure, but I think what you're doing is about the best bet for administering it. Don't worry about getting it into their lungs, it's almost impossible since they breathe through a different tube that entrs the throat lower down, and if you use a soft little tube to squirt the stuff through it'll be completely guaranteed to 'go down the right hole'. When the bird is not eating or drinking enough to sustain its life, then I would force feed and hope it makes it. Once it's that far gone not too many do but then again I have chooks and their descendants today that went through that sort of stuff and lived... You never know.

One thing on these forums you will see a lot is people immediately administering electrolytes. Honey contains them, so does ACV, though I don't positively know about using ACV right now. The reason electrolytes can turn around a near-dead creature is because when the body is under attack calcium, magnesium, and potassium among other necessary things becomes depleted, and without them the heart will not function properly, and suffers arrest. Honey is often a lifesaver for the electrolytes it gives, as well as energy and nutrience.

Quote: I've used sage and rosemary in most cases and can't tell you for sure which made the difference, though I have managed to keep many animals that were too far gone by other's standards. Rosemary with honey is supposed to be the number one heart tonic according to J.d.B.Levy, asides from lily of the valley in tiny doses, which is supposed to correct all heart disturbances, and also heart's ease, a common herb; however I think some modern cultivars and ornamental strains of rosemary etc are being sold as medicinal or culinary which renders them useless. I only recently found a supplier of rosemary that does what it's supposed to, but even weaker strains have their uses and with the weaker versions of the stronger herbs you don't have to worry about over dosing them.

In this case I don't think her heart has anything wrong with it beyond what the real underlying issue is doing to her. As in, I think it's a secondary symptom. But supporting the heart is one of the crucial things to do in all cases.

Garlic is great for a lot of things but is more of a frontline defense, not a complete inner fortifier. Serious issues can occur despite garlic being fed, as you can see. With modern diseases we need to experiment and discover new combinations etc that heal them; few single herbs are easily going to tackle a vaccine gone wrong, for example. If you buy birds that were vaccinated as chicks and rear them naturally, in my experience they will always be sub par and have more/worse/inexplicable issues than naturally reared unvaccinated birds.

About warming her, if you check her to see whether or not she's holding normal body temperature unassisted during the normal current night temperature, you'll know whether or not to assist. When they've lost weight they tend to struggle to fight the problem when also having to use low resources to maintain body heat. Sometimes they seem warm enough then drop temperature during the coldest part of the night. Studies show that animals that receive affection when convalescing recover better and more survive than animals 'left in peace'. They seek to be away from creatures that attack them but are quite welcoming to kind interactions. With some of my animals, they seemed to thrive more on the affection than the treatment, lol.

Quote: Awesome, I hope she keeps improving! Being able to reach sunshine is important in a lot of cases. Recently the medical community discovered vitamin D receptors in ALL body tissues and structures, including organs, which has some pretty large implications.

From looking at the photos, she doesn't seem dehydrated, which is one of the most common things I see in chooks with her issues or symptoms, so that's great. I think you're doing the most you can, everything I think to suggest may be a mistake, since we don't actually have a definitive diagnosis on the main issue, so just go with your instinct and hopefully that's right. I think if she keeps showing signs of improvement some protein would be in order soon. Unsweetened yogurt or raw egg, maybe... Raw egg is something that will usually let you know a little more about their issue, since generally if they refuse it they have some kind of liver issue. May be too soon for raw egg, I don't know. The not knowing really is the hardest part.

Best wishes. Hoping!

EDIT: re: differences between abscesses and tumors. I've not seen external tumors though have seen the cancerous guts of chooks with leucosis. Abscesses are fluid filled whereas tumors tend to be solid, and not filled with solid stuff but more like solid abnormal flesh all the way through. They can be soft, but there are a lot of different types of tumors, and some of them flout these general guidelines.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Well, today was a good day for Wilma. I noticed her voluntarily drinking water, and even pecking at some food. I can tell from her poops she's eating a very, very small amount of grain food. The fact that she was up, walking, eating and drinking is a huge change. I still forcefed her honeywater though.


Quote: She has 2 water dish options in her pen, one is honeywater with a little sage in it. The other is OACV+garlic. She doesn't have a regular water. Is this bad? Incidentally, the dish I saw her drinking from voluntarily was the OACV+garlic.



Quote: As far as I know, they weren't vaccinated.. but I can't be certain. I would think the seller would boast about vaccinating when we bought them since he would have had to pay for it. I didn't know enough to ask.

Right now I'm wishing I had done my flock differently. I'm looking at local breeders and seeing how they do things vs hatcheries, creating pipe dreams of how I might start over from the beginning, hatching chicks/hand raising......


Quote:
Hmm interesting! I felt a bit silly thinking it, but it does sometimes seem that she likes being held by me - at least right now. Normally she would never tolerate it. And the one day she was very down, was when I wasn't home very much.. left alone in a box all day. I could combine her with Runty, but Runty is terrified of her because she's always pushed her around in the past.


Sidenote, Runty's leg seems better today, but I think a couple extra days of rest are in order to make sure it's healed. Her chicken diaper arrived, and wow, she freaking hates it. She can't stand to wear it. She tries to back-up to get out of it, then runs into a wall, then does vertical 3-foot hops while squaking. I give up and take it off her. I thought it would let her have some freedom to stretch her legs and walk on a flat surface without pooping everywhere, but no. She won't even wear it. I put it on twice, it's on correct, and it's not too tight. It's very elastic-y, and she's very dramatic. While this was happening, I was handling her tail end a lot to get it in the diaper and she seemed to like it. I think she thought I was a rooster climbing on or something, because she stuck her butt up in the air and settled down onto the ground. Now is THAT the egg squat or what?!?! It would be hilarious that this miniature chicken should lay an egg first..


After your suggestion about Vitamin D, I took Wilma outside and sat in my chicken watching chair in the middle of the yard with her in my lap. She was so happy, the sun was warming up her feathers and the breeze was ruffling them - she literally made a purring sound, twice. I just about died. She also heard the others honking around the yard, particularly the other Barred Betty. They were very close. I swear they were talking their own language (they sound alike), and at that point Wilma wanted me to let her go join them, but of course I didn't. She's still so weak, very little fight in her. Maybe this was cruel to let her see them, but I wanted to remind her that the other chickens are waiting for her return and to keep fighting! I let her stand in the grass for a little bit too, she tried to peck at things but didn't really succeed. I think she expended too much energy by walking around the in grass, so for future outside trips I will keep her in my lap.

The neck abscess is really bothering her. She's so irritated with it, she stretches and turns and pecks at it. It really hasn't gone down at all. When I touch it, it feels more solid than liquid, maybe like a tumor. And she's pecked at it, so you might think she would have punctured it herself. Do you think I should try to drain it? I've no idea what it actually is. >.<


Quote: She has been nibbling at her grain which is in her cage and includes 20% crude protein (organic grower), so maybe that's a good sign? I can get yogurt, and I have egg.

As always, thank you, thank you, thank you. You have already taught me so much valuable information, I'm very grateful to you for helping me.

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Great to hear! On the topic, nettle is a great herb to give too, it's one of if not THE richest on-land plant source of the omega oils and good fats and is secondary only to kelp in terms of its value as food; it's also a powerful blood builder and if you could get some for her it ought to help her a lot. It's another of those staple herbs I automatically give to animals so often in injury or illness that I actually forget about it. Sorry about that!

Quote: It's probably a good idea to give some plain water too but during their sickest moments I didn't bother with that for my chooks. Now she's trying to get about some plain water might help flush her quicker. The honey water though would be meeting her basic fluid and food needs quite well if my experiences have shown me anything. Seems to me your chooks have some instinct remaining, a lot of the hatchery birds I got (which are required to be vaccinated over here, I don't know about over there) were too ignorant of what's good for them to be treated without it being a battle all the way. Might have something to do with their lesser ability to absorb nutrience. That's when 'quick fix junk food' looks more appealing to them, though it doesn't help them, mostly, but in the case of severely starved dogs, white rice is good because it converts to instant sugars, unlike whole rice which has more nutrience and takes longer to digest. Honey water would supply the same sugar fix minus the same level of carbs though so it's a toss up of whether or not the bulkier rice is a better option there. It may be.

Quote: While it's not easy the best way to start is often with damaged or sub par stock. This will teach you a world of necessary things and when you begin sourcing from naturally healthy stock or breeding/rearing your own, it's going to be so smooth and fuss free in comparison, it'll all be worth it. I believe so anyway. Despite the trials of dealing with weaker stock, it's worth it for experience, and I can now spot a host of issues from the first sight of a new bird and won't be buying some guaranteed failures like I have in past. Your hatchery birds are much better than mine were on average, I had some well below their level and some close to or slightly over... But I won't buy from large hatcheries ever again, only 'backyard' breeders and enthusiasts.

Quote: Might be OK to put her and Runty together and see if it's distressing to either, but shouldn't be an issue if you don't, either. Runty would see Wilma's not up to her usual antics, but being injured herself may just feel too scared to be happy with her. It's up to you. If you feel it's a bad idea, probably best not to.

Some of my chooks and other animals, particularly young or infant ones, would go downhill when not shown enough affection. I believe one of the main reasons, if not THE reason affection is shown by mothers to offspring in most larger animal species is because the babies have an automatic switch that flips on with affection and off with rejection or being ignored; this switch controls their will to live and not too many babies defy it. This is just a theory I've developed from years of dealing with wild and domestic animals, especially babies, over the years. There is doubtless more to it, but affection is necessary. When a baby emerges into the world, affection shows it that it has an invested mother, therefore a good chance for living, and should put its utmost effort into it. Rejection, or being ignored despite being tended, on the other hand tells it that it's as good as gone, since the environment needed to raise it is lacking, and the baby giving up on life means it will die quicker without prolonged suffering.

Many babies that are physically fine just up and die without affection; shown a storm of affection, though, even a baby that is well on its way into death will rouse and put in an effort and often recover seemingly on love alone. The initial studies into the role of affection in saving lives were driven in part by vivisectionists discovering that no matter what they did, certain wards of animals lived and some died, despite having identical treatments and surgeries etc. They checked out what the difference was... And found it was one assistant taking the time to cuddle and stroke and be affectionate to one ward of patients. The seemingly very rough licking and nudging mother cats, cows, etc give a newborn is necessary. Gentle licking or rubbing can leave them almost comatose and they can fail to 'quicken'. I've helped many different types of animal birth and know firsthand, do not be too gentle, the babies will not survive it, lol! There is literally a patterned sequence of rubbing and nudging that seems to do the trick every time. Roughly half of all babies born don't seem to take their first breath without that stimulation.

When a mother cat decides to smother a kitten, it will struggle once, then lay without moving as it awaits death, accepting its mother's decision. If the smothering was accidental and the kitten is rescued, even a second after being covered by the adult's body, the kitten is always depressed, noticeably, and its health will run downhill rapidly while it just sits and mopes its life away, unless frantically licked and made a fuss of immediately after being rescued; if the fuss is made, it brightens up and is playing with its siblings a moment later like nothing happened. It's a lot like that failure to thrive syndrome that kills humans babies, where the only thing they didn't get was affection. They just die.

This whole experience, if she survives it, could be that 'near death' experience I mentioned to you before, where a non tame or disinterested animal finds affection and trust for humans after being nursed through its severe issues. Many animals I've kept were going to be culled or re-homed until something like this happened and the sterling nature that emerged got them an experimental place on the breeding program, which they did so well with, I now assume any really damaged animal that got friendly during tending will produce beautiful natured offspring. This is a deeply felt reaction in them and of all the behaviours I know how of, it breeds strongest and deepest and truest and by far the fastest. I have it in spades in my flock now, which is beautiful, because most of my birds have at least one ancestor who went through something like that.

Offspring of a parent that turned into a pet through damage may inherit their parent's initial flightiness and dislike of human's company, but when caught and held, despite their initial alarm, they often melt like their parent, except with an expression of incomprehending astonishment, lol!

You can see the cogs start churning in their brains, after you hold them they're dazed with the force of the inherited recall of feeling peace and love in your company. They'll often fall over or land on their heads if you try to let them hop down like normal, and will stand there goggling at you, trying to figure out why they feel this way. Funny to see a chook trying so hard to think. I have also seen a similar expression on intensive commercial production hen's faces as they watch other hens with babies, staring unblinking and unmoving for hours on end, trying to reconnect the instinct that is awakening subconsciously. These hens will go on to be mothers despite not having experienced motherhood for hundreds or thousands of generations, and the near-death-experience-tamed chook's offspring will almost always tame quicker by far than others from unaffected parents. Worth it.

It's about the only way I know of that a vicious animal's offspring can turn around those ancestral instincts/ miasma in one generation flat. None of these birds or other animals I kept were absolute true nasties before the life threatening circumstance, just not high enough quality to be automatically on the breeding list. But some of them did come from less than well behaved parents, or parent possessing several marks against them for various faults of nature or acquired habit or whatever.

My family, having seen the animals I've nursed through issues so often become lovely natured, make jokes about nasty animals needing a 'near death experience' and it's so true... But it doesn't work for all, though it works for the majority. Truly nasty animals will not even care. An interesting side effect or direct effect is that animals can learn to show compassion to others. Many of my damaged but saved stock went from being unfriendly to other damaged animals, to showing them care, like chooks snuggling up to and putting their wings over a hurt or ill chook.

Interestingly it's now becoming accepted that animals do think, do feel, and do remember stuff well beyond the limits we were taught. Emotion is measurable molecules of endocrinal secretions and neural activity, and as far as the logic we thought was man's exclusive faculty, that's also being accepted to just be a method of reasoning out the world around a creature. Animals too show faulty logic, lol. Even fish have been recorded using tools, those magical things that 'separate man from the animals', and sheep are now proven to have a facial memory span of up to two years, and that's for humans, not other sheep, lol! Some of these sheep rival some strains of chickens for having intelligence and instinct bred out of them to a massive degree, so that's no mean feat. Not too many breeds of dogs are known for the ability to recognize humans facial expressions, either, and dogs keep climbing up the I.Q. charts attempting to quantify their intelligence by human standards. People still drag out that old corker about how we 'project' our emotions etc on animals, we 'humanize them so we identify with them better' and 'it's unfair to them' and while animals don't think/feel/reason exactly like we do or to those standards, they certainly aren't limited to being strictly autonomous, unthinking, instinct and hormone driven biomachines like we've been taught. I've missed so much info that was right in front of me by being blinded by scientific but biased studies and educated academical ignorance, and now (as always, history repeats) science is throwing the old mythology out the window... Very interesting stuff! (I've always been interested in animal behaviour, in case you couldn't tell... lol)

Quote: The butt-in-the-air thing I haven't yet figured out; if a hen tilts her rear end too high a rooster will slide right onto her head, but I have seen some chooks of adolescent age and both genders do that high butt tilt thing. It may be a practice sexual behaviour. Baby male and female turkeys take turns displaying like males and sitting like females, switching genders after each mock-mating as they take turns in this strange role play.

Plenty of hens and roosters from massive hatcheries never mate normally, neither did their ancestors back for who knows how many generations, so they display both normal and aberrant sexual behaviour to humans. Some crouch or jump on like normal, some tilt strangely (I would think it's maybe due to the human's artificial insemination technique) and some roosters think legs or hands are sexy (never both, each rooster who is attracted to humans seems to have a leg/foot or hand/arm fetish, not both)... Strange. I'm aware of more than a few artificial insemination techniques I disapprove of... The animals can mate just fine, why go putting your hands and arms where they don't need to be? Confusing animal's sexual instincts to involve humans as a stimuli is just wrong at best and dangerous at worst. We're still using frozen sperm from bulls who died in the 1960's, which brings inbreeding to futuristic levels. I'm aghast at the animal breeding industry's standards quite often, and their disconnect from connecting the faults they see and the genes they breed, even though these educated people actually do know better.

Quote: It's very good she sees them and they see her, it will retain her place as a member of the flock; not the exact social place but the memory of her as being part of the group. It will also give her a bit of inspiration, if she has any ability to live, so I would take it as a good sign, but of course it's no guarantee. Hoping. It's not cruel to let her see them, it's more invigorating as long as they aren't allowed to bully her.

Standing in the grass or on the dirt is necessary to connect with the 'earth' field to discharge static electricity, which builds up when insulated from the earth. We (and all living things) run on direct current, and our homes are wired with alternating current, which interrupts and interferes with our every cell's electrical activity. Being constantly exposed to AC and never getting back to our natural DC is harmful, since we depend on our bio-electrical systems to survive. Some lawyers have recently started making statements about the coming class action lawsuits against the makers and purveyors of 'dirty electricity' or electrical pollution will rival the tobacco, alcohol, and asbestos damages awarded combined. I'd find it a little over the top if I didn't personally know people who suffer electricity sensitivity syndrome, it can get pretty crippling in this modern technologically based world. Here I am typing away on a keyboard, not noticing any ill effects, when just doing this would cut off circulation and numb their fingers and hands and then arms within fifteen minutes. It's almost like AIDS to some people, it just gets worse and worse as they keep using electrical items over the years, their nerves retreat from the electrical fields.

Quote: It may be wisest to drain, though I'd worry about releasing something into her bloodstream while she's trying to convalesce. It's impossible to say for sure without knowing what it is, but most if not all people on these forums would advise you to drain it, judging from the usual responses to cysts, lumps etc. So I'd go with my judgment on it if I were you. If it feels hard, not hot, and isn't coming out though the wound on it, maybe it needs draining, especially if it's irritating her, which it seems to be. But if she's showing signs of recovering despite it, it might be best to wait until she's stronger. I don't know for sure. Best wishes with that decision and whatever following actions you take. I might do more research into stuff to apply to it that will seep through the skin and tackle it internally, but that NuStock stuff is supposed to be pretty good even for cysts, abscesses, etc.

One thing mum always told me was that itchiness means it's either healing or infected. But generally it seems more indicative of healing. Not knowing what made the lump is the biggest issue. It could be the body isolating a nasty dose of toxins or venom, and releasing it into her bloodstream now could be a mistake. But if it's a lump of dead white blood cells that have done their job and killed an infection, no problem. Same if it's a benign tumor, but if it's a malignant one cutting into it will disperse the cancer throughout her body. I really can't offer you any worthwhile advice there except to possibly keep applying the NuStock. Even then, I've never used it, so it's all just hearsay and hopeful conjecture. But hope is good!

Quote: You're very welcome, I only hope I can actually help. It's all a crash course, I know I would have liked having someone to question a lot of the time. But much of your experiences will be different to mine, even using the same methods, not least because you're in another country and everything in your birds, their feeds, their environment, etc will be subtly different. But chickens are incredibly tough as far as birds go, so where there's life, there's hope. There isn't any one perfect solution to basically any issue. I can tell you this though: silver's very potent and none of my birds showing the same symptoms as her wattles etc showed perked up that quickly. Silver's basically the only thing you've done so far that I hadn't. I wouldn't let her overexercise herself but some exercise and sunshine and peaceful social interaction and grounding from static electricity should help her. All the best.

EDIT: on the topic of affection, emotion, and healing: some white blood cells have recently been discovered to possess endocrinal receptors and transmittors, which opens up a whole new way of viewing how emotion impacts disease and injury healing. This was discovered in humans but I don't doubt animals have it too, possibly in even stronger form.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Quote:
Aha! Consider nettle saved in my journal. Does it need to be fresh? What do you think about: http://www.oregonswildharvest.com/owh/browse/product/nettle_leaf_cs

• 100% Certified Organic Nettle leaf, cut-and-sifted
• Non-GMO
• Herb Identity Guaranteed
• We guarantee that this product has NEVER been irradiated or fumigated with Ethylene oxide gas
• Product does NOT contain dairy, wheat, gluten, peanuts, soy or corn allergens.
• Packaged in resealable, temperature and chemical resistant, lower air permeability, food-grade bags

Quote: Today, I combined their pens into one and now they have 3 waterers to share, one with regular water. She is drinking on her own, from all 3 dishes lol. She is eating a tiny, tiny amount - sometimes she pecks at the food and doesn't get anything. Inaccuracy with her beak or weakness or something. She was much more active, walking around with a little more purpose due to Runty's addition. She would move her body in between Runty and the food/water dish she was drinking and slowly push her away from it. They have 3 waters and 2 foods though, so Runty would just walk away and go to another dish. Then Wilma sulks over and pushes her again. Runty is very non-combative, gives up immediately. You can tell that Wilma wants to kick her butt, but she hasn't the strength. I hope over time they'll settle down and be friends.

Runty fell asleep on the roost in Wilma's pen, I didn't provide her one previously because of her leg problems. Wilma has not slept on the roost since the first couple nights she was inside. She has a smaller roost (it's a piece of cardboard, but shaped into a long cubic rectangle) on the ground which she likes to sleep on. I think that she loses her balance in her sleep, maybe she fell off once?

Today I cleaned off her foot, reapplied nustuck. The face abscess may be shrinking? Fed honey/herb/silver water 3x today. This may be unnecesary by now, but I wanted to get the silver in her at least. And anyway it's sort of affection.. if you consider beak water torture affection! I was gone for about 7 hours of the day but I tried to give her cuddles before/after I left.


Quote: Yeah, I suppose you're right.. but it's a very uncertain feeling when one of them is sick. Hopefully with more experience, I'll be able to treat with confidence in what I'm doing. The 4 red rejects we got baffle me, how we really took the last 4 and didn't notice their issues. You would have thought one of the red rejects would have a life threatening issue first. I suppose vent gleet was a pretty crappy introduction to keeping chickens. The Barreds always seemed healthy, strong. Their combs/wattles incidentally are both still very small. Everyone elses' is growing like crazy! I put some golf balls in their nest, maybe they will get the hint. XD


Quote:
Ah how sad... I imagine she felt ignored left alone in a box those 2 days I was gone. I checked on her morning/night but otherwise she was alone. Sadly I did not get a chance to take her out in the sunshine today. Before your encouragement, my SO was somewhat convincing me that I should leave her alone to heal and not waste her precious energy by handling her. It's hard for me to read what a chicken wants, she mostly just lays in my hand and does nothing when I do hold her. But after that, I started letting her spend some time in my lap at the computer or the TV, and I suppose she is content with that! Maybe having a 'friend' will help also.


Quote: This is just awesome, I truly hope you are right.


Quote: It seems so painfully sad the way we breed them. I hope Wilma recovers tamely, who knows, I might have to breed her!


Quote: I've always felt that way about animals! When I was very young, I had a huge connection to animals and wanted to be a veterinarian. I think I decided it would be too painful to go that every day. Despite the issues, I'm really enjoying raising these birds.


Quote: Sometimes I really can't read the animal or how she feels, mostly when she's sick. I may just need to read her as 'pain' or 'nausea' when she seems unreadable. But for example with another animal I'm more bonded to like my cat, I can say for certain that he has emotions and thoughts and he is actually quite intelligent and even manipulative! The more I learn, the more clear things become and I start to notice things that were there before, I just didn't see.

Quote: It's more like she lays her belly on the ground and puts her tail feathers up in the air. Those are some weird behaviors for sure.


Quote: that's awful


Quote: LMFAO


Quote: This is what I was hoping for. She certainly perked up when she was outside, but overall expended too much energy walking on the grass. I never thought about grounding them while they've been inside awhile, but that's exactly what I did. I should take Runty out for a stroll. How soon should I release Runty back into the flock? I want to make sure she remained inside for an extra period of time after she started walking on it, in order to make sure it's fully healed. How much time is needed to heal a chicken sprain?


Quote: Hm alright I think I'd rather not, until absolutely necessary. The one on her head might be slightly smaller. She's had nustock on the abscesses since 7/4, 6 days with washing it off in the middle, herb compresses, etc.


Quote: The bottle I bought was from Whole Foods, about $25 and the brand is Sovereign Silver. It was explained to me that they actually make their own silver at very high standards of quality, whereas the other brands available might import it from a supplier or however. It's 10 ppm, which is the lowest parts per million, and apparently that's better. Just in case anyone else wants to buy this miracle solution

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: The nettle you mentioned should be fine, better than nothing, it sounds ok. It's hard to get good nettle here and they often sell the wrong species. They're all good but the normal stinging nettle is best. On that note, fresh would be fine if you really pulverized it to destroy the stings, but it is stinging nettle for a reason, lol, it's covered in miniature hypodermics that inject irritating acids. Dried is best because of that. Not that I've never been stung by dried nettle but it's much less common, and once it's been crumbled like it is when sold in packs it should be fine.

It will help nourish her and build her blood cells afresh among many other things, it's a great herb.

Quote: Good to hear! About the inaccuracy with the eating, this can be due to illness and in this case it likely is. I had it in some birds due to neurological damage though.

Quote: Lol, well, a competitive attitude is better than no reaction I guess...

Quote: Stopping the treatment prematurely is more dangerous than going for longer than necessary. With some chooks I stopped soon after they showed improvement, and they went right back to where they were, rapidly. I would continue the treatment for at least a week, possibly two, but you could possibly just put it in a dish for her and see if she'll self-medicate on it.

Quote: That certainly has its merits, especially with wild animals, but with chooks, you've got to handle them to treat them in serious cases unless like a commercial producer you just cull and replace. It's a good thing you were already working on taming them before this happened. In general I find even some of the spackiest birds will settle down and recognize you are helping them when ill or injured, I've not had any die from being distressed or handled during treatment. They just seem to be more open minded (possibly fatalistic) when in dire need, so instead of thinking you're going to kill them they just let you handle them like 'well, I'm already messed up, what's the worst you're going to do?' and the same attitude seems to apply to a lot of wild animals too.

Often with wild animals they're quick to calm down when they realize you're not harming them, and they get curious about what you're doing. I've caught some wild animals to treat them and they seem to understand intention quite well, in fact when released a lot of them just stood there or hung around unconcerned.

Some though do better with being left alone but they let you know you're upsetting them, they don't sit calmly in your hands. It would be an issue if you were behaving like an ignorant child and playing dressups or whatever with an incapacitated creature, but that's obviously not the case. People often do more harm than good by viewing chickens as wild birds, in my opinion, it seems to be the rationale behind many erroneous assumptions and husbandry methods.

Quote: Time needed for healing depends on the usual barrage of multiple factors like genetics, severity of injury, diet, etc but if you think she can keep up with the rest without aggravating her injury then she should be good to go back out. If she damages herself struggling after them, she could tear any tendon that's weakened, and that might not fix.

We don't have access to good colloidal silver here but it's a good thing to have on hand. Hope Wilma continues to improve. Best wishes.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Alert! Egglaying incoming!!!!

I was sitting outside drinking my coffee and Ethel "Tails" was acting kind of funny. She has been more curiously peering at me lately, but keeping her distance. Today she came right up to me, so I reached down and petted her, and she did the OFFICIAL egg squat for me!! This time I know it for sure. I gave her a back rub like I would a cat, then I picked her up and set her in my lap, where she was quite content to sit for 5-10 minutes. I petted her which she seemed to like, but she couldn't get comfortable. She was constantly shifting in my lap but not getting down off me, she was not being held down. She purred a little bit, but no crazy clucking or egg singing. I think she is close, but not today. Her comb and waddle certainly are the largest!

After Ethel did eventually get down, she started sounding the alarm and the whole flock came running to check it out. She walked back over to me to demonstrate a pet/rubdown again lol. I don't know. They were all baffled that she would let me touch her I think. I picked her up and carried her down into the coop and put her in a nest. I could hear her pushing cedar shavings around while I stood outside. She would shuffle and stop, then start again. I can't wait!!!





size comparison with everybody, taken today (she's in front right)

Edit: Frankie the americana is squatting too!!! She let me rub her down, but otherwise isn't interested in seeking affection, while Ethel keeps hopping onto my lap. She dug out a deep nest in her house, but when I went back outside 30 minutes later, she was waiting at the back door for me. They are both 22 weeks old tomorrow

 

[chooks4life]

Great stuff! Amazing how quick they grow. She will most likely be the first to lay, as you reckoned, she seems in great health and very matured. Hens are quite acquisitive of roosters too, so I would think it's possible she did try to show the flock what she'd found with you, lol... I know the hens always like to check out any new boys I bring in, despite having so many around. Many of my hens will volunteer to go into the new-arrivals cage if they like the rooster in there. I usually put at least one hen in with a rooster to introduce him to the place. Roosters bond to hens more than to places, it's the hen who really bonds to a place; a rooster can be freeranged within four days of getting him, as long as he's bonded to a hen, but a hen needs at least a week on average lest she set out on an epic journey to return from whence she came.

Haha, there I am thinking roosters, but your hens have yet to lay their first egg... Best wishes with all that, the first egg is cause for celebration indeed. A lot of people are less impressed with the rest of the new layers but I always have a little celebratory feeling when any hen lays her first, even if it's a wind egg. Likewise with all new hatchings, new life is a cause for celebration. All the best.

 

[Farmer Viola]

IT'S HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rofl here I was thinking it would be a few days still, I put her in the nest box a second time and went back inside, went out to check and there was a fresh warm EGG!!!

size comparison:
Ethel's first egg on the left; organic brown free-range locally-raised on the right


Journal Entries
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7/11 Noticed Runty standing on left leg, lifting right leg up in the air – maybe it's not better? Fed herb/silver to Wilma 2x. Wilma scratched the nustock off her face lump, it looks smaller, maybe some white in it? Also now has a scab from her scratching, reapplied nustock. Took her outside for some sunshine, wanted to join the others. Runty too, struggled to get away. Betty came over and pecked Runty >:[[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7/12 Runty standing on one leg a little bit again today. Worried it might have been from the diaper freak out. Bought Nettle, created a tea by breaking open the capsule in boiling water. Also sprinkled some in one of their feeders (not both). Squirted some in Wilma's beak along with the usual mixture.[/FONT]