Bumblefoot surgery - with pics and "how to"

[MrsBachbach]

Also do you think Betadyne would work?  I have that too already.  I thought I'd give her a little bit of aspirin for the pain.  Maybe 1/2 tab in her water?  What meds can I get for her, both to clean out the foot and for pain - without seeing a vet?  I have no money, otherwise I would have taken her and have them take care of this.  Thanks so much for your advice.

If the foot is still bleeding, asprin may not be wise. If it isn't, then some baby asprin in her water may help, but I wouldn't give it for more than a day or two. I know they sell asprin water at the feed store for chickens, I just don't know the dosage. So I would do only baby asprin, maybe the equivalent of 1/2 tablet a day. I'm sure you can find a dosage by doing a search on the forum here.
I think I used betadyne and sugar for mine. But I didn't have a deep hole in my chickens foot either. I don't know. Not knowing what kind of wound you are dealing with, hard to tell. Might be best to stick with the neosporin. Might be helpful to post a pic too.

 

[soozannah]

Thank you for your reply(s). Sure is a big help. No, I won't post a pic. It would be too gross and prompt everyone to ask what the heck I was doing. I was a big puss lump for sure but I admit I went too far. I feel really awful about it too so no need to add to my guilt bag (not that anyone has, just I know I really messed her up and I'm just in tears about it. I will do everything I can for her though. It doesn't seem like she's in a lot of pain but I'm not her so I really can't say). I was thinking of taking her out of the coop, laying down an old sheet or something over the grass and put a little pen around her so she can't get into the dirt. I think she needs sunshine though. I packed her wound with sugar and iodine and will do that for the next 3 days, then get back to the Neosporin. All help and suggestions are really appreciated.

 

[wildsam]

Do NOT put her in the dirt!
Once she starts scratching (and she will for sure) the dirt will get into her wound and WILL cause infection!
Plus, the sunshine and movement make her more lively (for the lack of a better word) where she should rest, calmly, and heal in peace. This will happen eventually, but you'd prolong it with her being out and about, plus using her injured foot for what she naturally wants to do, especially gettig enticed by the sunshine!

I know, it seems cruel and heartbreaking, but believe me, she will be better off if she can stay a couple of days in a darkened crate by herself to limit movement and give her and her foot time to relax and heal. Calm those well needed nerves and speed the healing by not moving much and having the freedom and peace to heal.

Yes, she might stop laying for a bit (if she hasn't already) due to the darker surroundings, but she will start up again once she is healed and can move around without hindrance in the sunshine to come!

 

[MrsBachbach]

Thank you for your reply(s).  Sure is a big help.  No, I won't post a pic.  It would be too gross and prompt everyone to ask what the heck I was doing.  I was a big puss lump for sure but I admit I went too far.  I feel really awful about it too so no need to add to my guilt bag (not that anyone has, just I know I really messed her up and I'm just in tears about it.  I will do everything I can for her though.  It doesn't seem like she's in a lot of pain but I'm not her so I really can't say).  I was thinking of taking her out of the coop, laying down an old sheet or something over the grass and put a little pen around her so she can't get into the dirt.  I think she needs sunshine though.   I packed her wound with sugar and iodine and will do that for the next 3 days, then get back to the Neosporin.  All help and suggestions are really appreciated.

Well, let us know how it goes. Is she standing on it at all?
Yes, keep her out of the dirt and out of wet areas. Dry and as clean as possible should be her ground until the wound starts closing up good. Keep the bandages changed, maybe every two days initially, if you keep her on clean ground. I wouldn't remove them entirely until it is completely healed. If you have a medium sized dog carrier, you can put shavings in the bottom, attach the food and water cup and leave her in that at night in the coop with the other birds. Move her to the day cage during the day. That way she can at least stay familiar with the others while she heals. If it rains, put her back in the carrier so her feet stay as dry as possible. No need to put a sheet on the ground unless it's muddy. It's not likely to stay in place anyway. Wrap that foot up good enough, guaze pad, vet wrap, then waterproof or athletic tape, like my picture and she can keep on the grass during the day. Just don't want it to get soggy. It will probably take a few weeks to completely heal. I would probably give her a little extra protein now and then and some vitamin mineral mix in her water a few times a week. If the foot looks like it may be infecting or you want to prevent that all together, start her on some antibiotics. Pen G injectable should work. You can pick that up at a feed store along with a needle and a 1 ml syringe. I wouldn't go smaller than an 18 or 20 gauge needle because that stuff is thick. Dosage is a tenth of a ml per ten pounds for a few days. Usually inject in breast muscle. So, it doesn't take much for a bird. I've never had to use that for a bumblefoot surgery, but I don't know what kind of wound you are dealing with. But Pen G is supposed to be good for staph and nasty wounds I think.

Oh, I don't know how warm or hot it is in CA, but you don't want to leave your bird in direct sunlight all day. They can overheat.

Oh I just wanted to add that if you are using that drawing poultice, (that clay stuff might work too, can't remember the name of it) when you remove the bandages, you may see more pus. That's good, cause that will mean it is working. Just wash it off gently and then reapply the poultice. Make sure you wear gloves doing this, staph is something you don't want on you or on surfaces.

 

[RoseMarie1]

Thank you so much for getting back to me. I got little sleep last night, so worried. I'm keeping her in her coop and WILL clean her every day as you say. I have Betadyne, if I make a spray of it, is that like VERTRICYN (I've never heard of it)? Where do I get it? Should I keep using the Neosporin?

NOOOO after all you have done to get the mess out of her foot please keep her inside in a crate so it can heal because it WILL get infected and she will lose her little foot! They scratch, that's what they do and it will get dirt and poop in it.

 

[RoseMarie1]

Well, let us know how it goes. Is she standing on it at all?
Yes, keep her out of the dirt and out of wet areas. Dry and as clean as possible should be her ground until the wound starts closing up good. Keep the bandages changed, maybe every two days initially, if you keep her on clean ground. I wouldn't remove them entirely until it is completely healed. If you have a medium sized dog carrier, you can put shavings in the bottom, attach the food and water cup and leave her in that at night in the coop with the other birds. Move her to the day cage during the day. That way she can at least stay familiar with the others while she heals. If it rains, put her back in the carrier so her feet stay as dry as possible. No need to put a sheet on the ground unless it's muddy. It's not likely to stay in place anyway. Wrap that foot up good enough, guaze pad, vet wrap, then waterproof or athletic tape, like my picture and she can keep on the grass during the day. Just don't want it to get soggy. It will probably take a few weeks to completely heal. I would probably give her a little extra protein now and then and some vitamin mineral mix in her water a few times a week. If the foot looks like it may be infecting or you want to prevent that all together, start her on some antibiotics. Pen G injectable should work. You can pick that up at a feed store along with a needle and a 1 ml syringe. I wouldn't go smaller than an 18 or 20 gauge needle because that stuff is thick. Dosage is a tenth of a ml per ten pounds for a few days. Usually inject in breast muscle. So, it doesn't take much for a bird. I've never had to use that for a bumblefoot surgery, but I don't know what kind of wound you are dealing with. But Pen G is supposed to be good for staph and nasty wounds I think.

Oh, I don't know how warm or hot it is in CA, but you don't want to leave your bird in direct sunlight all day. They can overheat.

Oh I just wanted to add that if you are using that drawing poultice, (that clay stuff might work too, can't remember the name of it) when you remove the bandages, you may see more pus. That's good, cause that will mean it is working. Just wash it off gently and then reapply the poultice. Make sure you wear gloves doing this, staph is something you don't want on you or on surfaces.

yeah the drawing stuff on the other foot along with soaking in epsom salts every day and keeping her inside in a crate.

 

[soozannah]

I got the Vetricyn and Pen-G in the mail today. Will start the injections 2morro and clean it with the Vetricyn (I'm still going to douse it with hydrogen peroxide tho'). I'm changing her bandage every day. The gauze sticks so I run her foot under cool/warm water for about 5 min and get it unstuck then run water over it again followed by pouring hydrogen peroxide over it. Molly just sits on her back in my lap for me, doesn't say a thing and is quite calm about it all - a surprise considering what she went through with no anesthetic or pain meds. I've stayed away from the
Epsom salts for the time being as you suggested Mrs BachBach. Today however, I did see green color like under the skin between the toes. I hope it's not gangrene where she'll lose her foot. I do hv a doggy pen thing, it's a padded octagon shape about 3-4' wide, has like a doggy door on one panel with netting plus it has a canvas floor that velcros to the sides at the bottom. I put it out under the tree in the front yard and after we finished changing her bandage, put her in it. She was quite content to just sit there, didn't try to get out, she has the best food - fresh corn, grapes, carrots, salad green stuff - all her favorites plus vitamin water and I mix up a little yoghurt, mash up a bit of banana, add a couple of drops of avian vitamins and some Rapid Remedy and give it to her after our bandaging session. She likes it I think. The doggy enclosure worked out great; Molly sat there all day very content - no direct sun, shade tree and she was content - much more than sitting in the coop all day. I think she stood on her foot yesterday, really wanting out of the coop - stood up so I would see she was OK to get out of the coop. Molly's a pretty smart bird - saved herself after watching the snake eat her other chicken friend - eat her whole. She was traumatized but got it together really fast, got real friendly with the lady of the house and started laying eggs like crazy. She was going to be lunch the following week for this huge python the nice lady's roommate intended for her. I got her away from there - my 1st chicken - and Molly just found herself a seat in the back of the car and sat there without a protest all the way home. I never thought I'd have respect for a chicken but I do for my Molly-bird. I added just 2 other hens - a Buff Orpington and an Easter Egger. They've left Molly alone and are also benefitting some as their coop all of a sudden is clean all the time now and the treats are more frequent too. I really appreciate all the help and advice I've gotten here. No, I would never put her in the dirt, not now, I never intended to do so. Molly liked being out of the coop, on the grass with the canvas underneath her. I put her back in the coop at night with the other two and so far, it all seems OK. I'm concerned about the green coloration though and hope beyond hope the Pen-G will work. I've never given an injection to a bird before either so....I've heard the Pen-G is thick and have read about it. Any advice on that - a repeat request - like what to do, where on the breast, just a detail would be again, so much appreciated. Sorry for the litany here but thanks again - to everyone.

 

[soozannah]

Also, I've stayed away from using Betadyne and am using pure iodine and sugar, cleaning it out first with fresh running water then dousing it with hydrogen peroxide. I also am not using aspirin, but am using Rapid Remedy - it's a formula specially for animals although very similar to same stuff by same name for humans. I give it to my mom sometimes when she gets agitated (she has Alzheimer's). It's homeopathic and really works great. It's a bit pricey tho' so when this bottle is used up, that'll be it. It's not really meant for pain per se but for making calm, soothing the raggedy soul. Am keeping Molly's environment as clean as I can, removing poop and putting down fresh pine shavings as needed. Not letting the foot get wet and bandaging it with vet tape and on top of that, electrical tape or 1st aid tape if I have. It's going to be a long stretch of care and nursing and with all our help, Molly will get better. Thanks again everyone for the support, your cumulative experience shows educated advice that has worked for you and I for one really very much appreciate all of it.

 

[MrsBachbach]

I got the Vetricyn and Pen-G in the mail today.  Will start the injections 2morro and clean it with the Vetricyn (I'm still going to douse it with hydrogen peroxide tho').  I'm changing her bandage every day.  The gauze sticks so I run her foot under cool/warm water for about 5 min and get it unstuck then run water over it again followed by pouring hydrogen peroxide over it.  Molly just sits on her back in my lap for me, doesn't say a thing and is quite calm about it all - a surprise considering what she went through with no anesthetic or pain meds.  I've stayed away from the
Epsom salts for the time being as you suggested Mrs BachBach.  Today however, I did see green color like under the skin between the toes.  I hope it's not gangrene where she'll lose her foot.  I do hv a doggy pen thing, it's a padded octagon shape about 3-4' wide, has like a doggy door on one panel with netting plus it has a canvas floor that velcros to the sides at the bottom.  I put it out under the tree in the front yard and after we finished changing her bandage, put her in it.  She was quite content to just sit there, didn't try to get out, she has the best food - fresh corn, grapes, carrots, salad green stuff - all her favorites plus vitamin water and I mix up a little yoghurt, mash up a bit of banana, add a couple of drops of avian vitamins and some Rapid Remedy and give it to her after our bandaging session.  She likes it I think.  The doggy enclosure worked out great; Molly sat there all day very content - no direct sun, shade tree and she was content - much more than sitting in the coop all day. I think she stood on her foot yesterday, really wanting out of the coop - stood up so I would see she was OK to get out of the coop.  Molly's a pretty smart bird - saved herself after watching the snake eat her other chicken friend - eat her whole.  She was traumatized but got it together really fast, got real friendly with the lady of the house and started laying eggs like crazy.  She was going to be lunch the following week for this huge python the nice lady's roommate intended for her.  I got her away from there - my 1st chicken -  and Molly just found herself a seat in the back of the car and sat there without a protest all the way home.  I never thought I'd have respect for a chicken but I do for my Molly-bird.  I added just 2 other hens - a Buff Orpington and an Easter Egger.  They've left Molly alone and are also benefitting some as their coop all of a sudden is clean all the time now and the treats are more frequent too.  I really appreciate all the help and advice I've gotten here.  No, I would never put her in the dirt, not now, I never intended to do so.  Molly liked being out of the coop, on the grass with the canvas underneath her. I put her back in the coop at night with the other two and so far, it all seems OK.  I'm concerned about the green coloration though and hope beyond hope the Pen-G will work.  I've never given an injection to a bird before either so....I've heard the Pen-G is thick and have read about it.  Any advice on that - a repeat request - like what to do, where on the breast, just a detail would be again, so much appreciated.  Sorry for the litany here but thanks again - to everyone.

Well, hopefully the green is just bruising, like our skin changes color when bruised. I've never had the gauze stick to the wound like yours is. I know hospitals and such have things like non stick pads for wounds, but I wouldn't know where to find them. Not sure if Walgreens or walmart carry that. I'm wondering if just packing the wound with the poultice, then applying a thin layer of vaseline over that would keep the gauze from sticking? I'm just not sure what might happen if vaseline gets up in the wound. Maybe someone with some nurse experience can weigh in on that. Is it still bleeding? You should only need to do that poultice for a few days total and then just focus on scabbing that wound. A non stick pad would sure help with that.
The instructions are on the bottle for the Pen G, but you need to bring it to room temp, shake throughly to mix (because it settles)then pull a little air into your needle and syringe, insert into rubber stopper and push air in the bottle. That helps when trying to draw out the medicine. Then invert your bottle and pull out the dosage you need and remove any air bubbles you see. It says a ml per 100 lbs, so a tenth of a ml per 10lbs. So you need to weigh your hen. If she weighs five pounds you would do half that amount. I probably wouldn't do less than that amount. Just put a little alcohol on a cotton ball, spread some breast feathers and find some skin, dab with the alcohol and insert the needle into the breast muscle and inject. Pretty easy. Easier if someone is holding the bird for you. Matters not which side, but if you are doing the side with the crop (where she stores her food, that big round ball on her chest) avoid the crop. Hopefully, the bird has some breast muscle on her. You can alternate sides each day. You can also inject in her thigh muscle if you choose. I don't know how long your needle is, the shorter the better, but you don't need to insert the whole needle, just maybe a quarter inch. You want to avoid any blood vessels. Yeah, hard to know where those are. So, just insert a bit of the needle. Clean your needle and syringe, better yet, use a new needle next time. Three days ought to be sufficient, you can probably do more if it looks like infection is setting in, but I don't think I would do more than five. If it was me, I'd toss her eggs for the next month. I'm not an expert on drugs and eggs, but I'd play it safe.

 

[soozannah]

Thank you and thank you again! I've done the poultice for 2 days now... after this injection, I think I'll leave it to get some air (with her sitting on my lap) then apply the Vetricyn and start in again with the Neosporin. No, it's not still bleeding but looks like it could start easily. She's been a trooper through this, I think I'll put her out again in the doggy thing and keep an eye on her. I have to clean the pool today too and build a dome for my turtle pond so I can get my turtles in it again. So I'll put Molly in the backyard where it'll be easier to watch her. I've printed your instructions and will follow to the letter. Good idea about using the Vaseline. I have some liquid bandage spray too called New Skin. Says it covers & protects wounds and it's antiseptic. On the box it says it dries fast and is meant for large wounds and forms a protective cover that is antiseptic, flexible, waterproof and lets skin breathe and completely covers the wound to keep out dirt and germs. Do you know of this product? Do you think I could use it on Molly? What's your name Mrs BachBach? I'm Susan. Sure do appreciate your help.