CALIFORNIA The Whole State thread

[gaited horse]

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I bet you have a migraine after writing that book to me! That is the longest pm I've ever seen! Ok I can see you are determined to educate this old brain of mine! You know how hard it is to absorb that much info at my age? Anyway, I will reread it tomorrow. I got to the part where you mentioned the prices folks pay for some of these dogs and kinda zoned out after that!

You do know that Steve and I are not exactly wealthy right?

It kinda tickled me that you thought we might have the means to compete at that level. After reading that pm I've about given up on the idea of breeding shepherds at all! Aren't there folks out there that just want these papered dogs for pets or for working purposes?

Our female (the AKC dog) is the sweetest dog ever! She is such a love bug and so eager to please! Watching her and Samson play is so much fun! Samson, our male (only has the German papers, no AKC pedigree) is sooo gorgeous even if he is a little oversized. He is a little hyper but is only a year old. He is smart as a whip though so he is learning very quickly. I just think they would make the most wonderful puppies! I had German Shepherds throughout my childhood and love the breed cause they are sooo great with kids! These two are no exception. They both love children and even my male seems to know that he needs to stay calm around little ones. Do I really need to spend $25,000 on a dog to breed when I don't show them?

Sorry for my ignorance about SQ dogs. I am trying to hear what you're saying, I know your experience in this area is exceptional!!! If my circumstances ever change I think I just need to hire you! It would take me awhile to absorb all the knowledge you have amassed over the many years you showed and won with your fantastic dogs!!! Just don't think I can ever compete at this level unless I hit the lotto or something like that.

Karen I agree! I too would love to see pics of the fence panels that you and your DH are making!

I don't like the American show shepred lines. I hate the slanted back it seems like it would cause so many back problems.
That is why if and when I start showing dogs it will be Border Collies with stock dog and show lines.

 

[cherylcohen]

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Great work!

 

[sewandgrow]

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Great work!

I agree Cheryl...................... Kim, you are doing a great job. If you need help holler. I have decided to give myself permission to skip 2 garden club meetings this week to play"chicken". I feel like I am on a roll & don't want to break my momentum. Aaron is home from his week end vacation away from me & all the work I always want done......LOL.
My quail breeding cages are done & I need to go to pick them up in Ripon & figure out where to best put them. I was thinking I would mount them on the cyclone panels which are the outside walls of the chicken pens but haven't worked out the details yet.
SunnyDawn I will try to get pictures today when I go out to start work again. I always forget how to download them into the computer & have to bug my husband to do that.....LOL Once they are downloaded I know how to rename them & upload them to BYC. My grown son, Aaron, & I are the ones doing the building. e work well together & he was laid off some months back so has the free time here with us. He worked at a poultry ranch & is totally comfortable with the chickens. He handled big turkies that weighed alot more than my chickens do. I do think the turkies are dumber & alot slower than the chickens though. We have a "pet" one here that was supposed to be Thanksgiving dinner 2 years ago & it's funny watching her compared to the chickens.
Have a good you allof you.

 

[cherylcohen]

karen are these yours? http://modesto.craigslist.org/grd/2671472475.html

 

[wolftracks]

That wasn't to scare you Sunny. That was my backwards way of engouraging. LOL I'll have to work on that since I feel my parenting skills are lacking lately. And if you need help I'm here. And yeah I know you aren't rich. I don't hang with the rich anymore. ROFL Oh and look at the discriptions of the dogs $25k and over. They weren't just dogs, they were rock stars. And get that German ped in your name. That alone and finding your dogs qualities is possibly worth stud fees. You already have the papers you need to get started. You can add AKC, but in comparison, those German papers make AKC junk. You're actually lucky it's the male since both don't have that registration. Now you just need to figure out what he can do as a stud. Oh and email me a scanned copy of the ped with the critique and I can tell you what it says.

Trying to figure out my day. So far I don't ache, but was affraid I was coming down with something. Not a good time for that right now. Maybe it's my allergies starting tao act up.

I need to scour my neighborhood for plywood or just something. I have stuff out back that's fine for frames, but then I have to stop. I have a larger Coop frame that isn't all together and it's been sitting there since.....................IDK, maybe April or May????? All the pieces just leaning. Wish I knew who owned a burned down house around the block. There's a fence that's been ripped out and once the graffiti is painted over would maybe work.

OK I had a pm asking if my birds were on craigslist and when I saw them I had to run out and make sure my birds were still penned up. LOL I swear even the birds that I can see have plenty of feed are acting like they haven't seen me to feed them in a month. I have to stop taking them things when I walk outside. They expect a treat every time and make sooo much noise when they see me. Dumb birds.

 

[capayvalleychick]

I have been so busy around the ranch that I barely can keep up with reading this thread, never mind posting! I think that I've missed some posts, but saw something that is so close to my heart and have to speak. Please don't get mad at me, this is something that I have such emotional feelings about.
I have had German Shepherd Dogs for almost 30 years. I used to train and do Schutzhund, at the club level. Most of the GSDs that I have had and known have been German or American bred to German SV standard. I've also volunteered as a foster for GSD rescue.
I also don't like the American show line GSDs. I'm sure that there are breeders out there that aren't breeding to the extreme, but for the most part, those dogs are bred for looks with way too much angulation. They have health issues and don't live long. I'm not sure, but these are the GSDs that have the price tags in the tens of thousands, I think, because the well bred German dogs can be found for a couple thousand as far as I know. The American GSD people will say that their dogs have the better temperament. I guess it depends on what you consider good temperament. A good GSD should have courage and be unflappable. Many American show line dogs are weak in that trait. Some American breeders in the Schutzhund world are breeding their dogs to be too sharp, but a dog bred true to the German standard is balanced. They can stand up to a bad guy and give kisses to babies in a crowd of strangers. They know what a true threat is and can distinguish between that and an unfamiliar situation. Obviously, I love and prefer the working German line GSDs. They are more sound, in structure and temperament. They are a truly balanced, intelligent, athletic animal, that can be a protector and a wonderful family pet. There are still some health issues, even in the German AKC GSDs. You see less hip dysplasia, but they are still prone to torsion/bloat. Most of our GSDs have died from that and it is heartbreaking. Our current GSD is my husband's dog, Jude. His breeder is well respected in the Schutzhund world. His breeding dogs must meet all the SV standards and tests before he will breed them. A lot of people will buy dogs imported from Germany, but he knows that Germans will hang on to their best and export the rest. He took his female to Germany and bred her to the GSD ranked 4th in the world at that time. He had a waiting list for these pups and matched each pup to it's home. This is something that I think is important for any dog breeder. We needed a dog that would get along with free range chickens and livestock. German GSDs are high drive, so that can be a challenge. He wouldn't let my husband have the pup he wanted. That pup went on to be a top Schutzhund trial dog. The pup he sold to us, (for $1500) has turned out to be our most stable, loveable, goofy, fun, friendly GSD of all. He gets along with the chickens and livestock. He will, and has, killed any roosters that attack him. He's going to be 7 next year and is healthy. We are hoping that he has a long life with us.

What I really wanted to say, before I went off on my rant, is that there are way too many GSDs in the US. Please, please, don't breed another litter before you have done a lot of research. Sure, you can make some money off a litter. Actually, the backyard breeders probably make the most profit because they don't do any of the training, testing , health care, etc, that a breeder of good GSDs does. People say to us, how could you pay $1500 for a dog? That breeder is getting rich. But we know that he spent years and money training and testing his breeding dogs. He also flew to Germany for the breeding. He probably didn't even come close to breaking even. He did all this for the love of the breed. Once you've known and loved a really wonderful GSD, you know how important it is to protect the breed. I know how it is to have a loved dog, so you think that you should have a litter. But, take a look on Petfinder. Do a search on GSD and see how many pop up, all over the country. Look at how many GSD rescues there are, with how many dogs. Even if you find good homes for your pups, what happens when they grow up and have more puppies? These aren't like chickens, where you can eat the extras. The extra GSDs, and there are thousands, end up suffering, tied to a chain or neglected in someones backyard or in shelters on death row.

I truly believe that only the very best GSDs should be bred. Ones that have no health problems, with no health issues in their lines. Dogs that have been trained and tested, to the SV standard, so that you know that you have an all around stable, balanced GSD with exceptional temperament, capable of being the working dog that it was originally meant to be. This GSD is also a wonderful family pet. There don't need to be breeders who produce GSD pups to simply be good pets. These are the ones who end up in rescue, eventually. Please either don't breed, or take the time to train, test, and do it right. For the love of the breed, For the love of the dog.

Ok, I'll shut up now,
Kim

 

[sewandgrow]

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I hadn't even seen that ad Cheryl but according to the phone # I do believe that is the trio I sold some months back, last Spring I think. The cockerel came from your house, Chickenstock 2010, & the 2 pullets I bought from Carrie Strobel @ SubstainableYieldPoultry.com up in Arnold. They were a housewarming gift for a friend of mine that had gotten the cockerel from you & moved to Copperopolis where she could have chickens after years of living in town without them. She was very excited to have them. I had already checked with Wynette at time I was looking for them & she had none available to go with your cockerel. Who would have thought they would be so hard to find. However, I do find, that there are alot of chicken people around bt not that many that are breeding towards SOP or even purebred. I deal with alot of people that love their feedstore/hatchery/or free range mixes. I think that is great but limits being able to find specific breeds without alot of research. I am trying to keep purbreds only. My friend loved the purbred Pencilled Rocks but when she moved to Carson City in town she couldn't take them so they came back to me & as you know I already have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many breeds.......LOL

 

[cherylcohen]

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I hadn't even seen that ad Cheryl but according to the phone # I do believe that is the trio I sold some months back, last Spring I think. The cockerel came from your house, Chickenstock 2010, & the 2 pullets I bought from Carrie Strobel @ SubstainableYieldPoultry.com up in Arnold. They were a housewarming gift for a friend of mine that had gotten the cockerel from you & moved to Copperopolis where she could have chickens after years of living in town without them. She was very excited to have them. I had already checked with Wynette at time I was looking for them & she had none available to go with your cockerel. Who would have thought they would be so hard to find. However, I do find, that there are alot of chicken people around bt not that many that are breeding towards SOP or even purebred. I deal with alot of people that love their feedstore/hatchery/or free range mixes. I think that is great but limits being able to find specific breeds without alot of research. I am trying to keep purbreds only. My friend loved the purbred Pencilled Rocks but when she moved to Carson City in town she couldn't take them so they came back to me & as you know I already have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many breeds.......LOL

ah so these are wynettes line? I emailed the listing but maybe I'll call

 

[sewandgrow]

I don't remember where Carrie got her's but she shows all kinds of chickens & I was with her at the Stockton show last time. She was showing Dark Brahams & BCM I think. I haven't heard much from her lately she has been working 2 jobs & has hours of chicken chores daily. I have her Mutant White Marans too. I hatched them from eggs I bought on a auction. She is trying to promote them so she has someone to show against. I guess it doesn't do much for you if you are the only one showing that breed/variety. I am selling them to concentrate on the varieties that lay the darker eggs. As you pobably know I don't want to take on a "project". I should have started alot younger to do that.......LOL

 

[wolftracks]

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See it's the name! LOL

I think we both gave her about the same info. LOL I still offer to help her decide if this male is worth breeding though. If he is of quality and has a strong working line he's worth the introduction to the AKC punys, but like I told Sunny in a pm, I never bred my titled German dogs to AKC dogs. They way they have destroyed the breed, just turns my stomach and I wasn't putting any of mine in any of those lines for them to turn around and take out all the good qualities. Still you never know what you have till you see those pedigrees. And a strong contract is a must when selling puppies. I've never had to take a dog back but came close once when the obedience clause wasn't met and I have a breeder return policy in any breed I've ever bred. If someone has to get rid of there dog it comes back to me or I have to ok any other home. I've never had to take one back in but I know if it needed to be done I would. I even had a couple tell me it was easier to adopt a baby than to buy a pup from me. They did buy it and came back for another. Not GSD, but Rotties. And there weren't a lot of pups bred, but they were quality and worth every penny that the buyers paid and my pet quality dogs were way over what some pay for a show quality dog. Then again I had the money to buy and breed to the best, so you get what you pay for. I used to do rescue work, but haven't in a very long time. I don't think these days I could handle it. It's a lot of work. I admire anyone who takes it on.

I also told Sunny about the "Good for America" dogs. Yeah right. Get the junk out or have a breed warden shut you down. It's been years since I imported GSDs and one reason was because of what I saw happen to them here. I've imported a lot of dogs since, but not in more than 10 years, but I do watch the GSD rings at shows and every once in a while you see a dog that you know has German blood and see the difference and half the time that dog doesn't even place. It's sad.

Still I think if someone owns a dog of quality that it is much different to breed that dog than one that is being bred to just make a buck. The pups are able to be placed in better homes and you don't have to settle for placing and selling dogs that you end up having to hold onto because they aren't placeable for some reason.

I think I mentioned also about meeting a couple at Petsmart. They had a very nice male, but they would hold him back or warn you not to walk up on him, because they were doing Shutzhund work. I wish I had written down where they train, because it that dog can't be walked through a preschool a minute after a hold and have no problem with kids all over him, he shouldn't be in training for it. Irks me to no end. Just the act of pulling the dog back is helping to make him more aggressive and a potential danger. Hope they have really good home owners insurance. Still I'd like the trainer name, so if anyone every asks I can tell them not to use them.

OK my dog rant. Sorry LOL


OK I'm still interested in knowing who has those SPPRs so if you guys find anything out, post it. Inquiring minds!

Breakfast, Lunch and Snack just learned to hop out of the brooder container. Guess I need to add a top today. Dinner I guess was too fat, but I know it's only a matter of time. LOL