Call duck hatch rates and general incubation issues?

[Wishapup]

This is my first real attempt with call ducks.

For this batch I had 12 eggs start. 45-50% humidity, temp consistent 99.5, in an auto-turner.

10/12 made it to day 23. All looked great with movement, veins, and good air cells. Moved them to my hatcher with 65-70% humidity.

I had 5 pipped by yesterday evening (day 25). All hatched by this evening day 26. Only one required a bit of assistance (foot completely over head).

I got suspicious that I was seeing no movement or pips from the other 5, so I candled. No movement, no beaks in air cells, no chirping. I verified that they were dead by opening small holes in each air cell. NONE had internally pipped. Meaning, safety holes would not have helped here.

I'll wait another day or two before fully opening them and checking for malpositions etc.

Here are my questions:

1. I've heard that call ducks are hard to hatch. BUT from what I've heard, they usually can internally pip on their own before assistance is required. Mine didn't internally pip. So what could have gone wrong? I can see a couple not being able to pip the membrane, but 50%??

2. For those of you who hatch call ducks, what are your hatch rates?

3. Extra stuff like cooling eggs for 15 minutes twice a day, misting the eggs. Do these things really make a significant difference in hatch rate? Do they have any impact on viability AFTER making it to lockdown?

I've had some issues with full-term deaths in many of my chicken eggs (purchased from different farms). I'm hoping this isn't the same problem. My last two batches had 80-100% viable at lockdown but 50-60% hatch rates. Full term chicks dead in shell, mostly in the right position, sometimes partial yolk absorption but nothing visibly wrong, not internally pipped. Plus one chick that randomly zipped all the way around and then died - again, nothing visibly wrong with it.

Humidity and temp have been good so I'm stumped. I purchased Govee thermometers for continuous data recording that show I am not having temp dips or spikes. Years ago I had hatch rates in the 80s and 90s with this same Hovabator. But just in case there was something weird with it, I switched to incubating in my hatcher (a different Hovabator) for this batch. It had just successfully hatched an emu after 49 days so I trusted it. Annd here we are with exactly 5 cute ducklings and exactly 5 FULL TERM dead eggs, so I don't know what to think.

Any discussion appreciated. Thank you

 

[Wishapup]

Opened the 5 eggs that didn't hatch and still not sure why they didn't hatch. Yolk partially or not absorbed, none internally pipped, some weren't quite in hatching position yet so probably died prior to day 25.

Wouldn't say they were too fluid-y, but definitely a thin layer of slippery amnion/goopiness covering them including head and beak.

The chicks/ducklings that DO hatch unassisted are all healthy and typically on time. No leg issues, no yolk sac infections or rough navels.

Only thing is that some of them dry off perfectly fluffy but a number of them will dry off all sticky and scruffy.

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[MrsWinterWheat]

That is really interesting, I wish I had answer because some of that I am currently struggling with myself.
I am struggling with all my call ducks eggs right now. But I also did struggle keeping the temperature up after I raised the humidity for lockdown. So it was around 97-98F.

I have 12 in lockdown all but 2 looked great going in but I am on day 26 at 10:30pm tonight and only movement in 2 of the eggs. They are pushing on the air cell but no internal pip.

 

[Wishapup]

That is really interesting, I wish I had answer because some of that I am currently struggling with myself.
I am struggling with all my call ducks eggs right now. But I also did struggle keeping the temperature up after I raised the humidity for lockdown. So it was around 97-98F.

I have 12 in lockdown all but 2 looked great going in but I am on day 26 at 10:30pm tonight and only movement in 2 of the eggs. They are pushing on the air cell but no internal pip.

I wonder if your hatch is just going to start later.
I get concerned when there's plenty of hatching action in a bunch of eggs but the other eggs are doing nothing.
Yours sound like they may just be getting started!

Have you hatched call ducks with success in the past?

 

[MrsWinterWheat]

I wonder if your hatch is just going to start later.
I get concerned when there's plenty of hatching action in a bunch of eggs but the other eggs are doing nothing.
Yours sound like they may just be getting started!

Have you hatched call ducks with success in the past?

Hopefully you are right!
First time at call ducks, years ago (probably 6–8 years now) I hatched out turkey and running ducks. I don’t remember it being this stressful!

 

[Wishapup]

@WVduckchick ?

 

[WVduckchick]

Don’t have much time to answer right now, but my call hatch rates vary. Always seems like I lose a few in the last couple of days, some before internal pip, some after. No real clues as to why.
I can say that my hens have better hatch rates. Sometimes they hatch 100% (though I usually remove early quitters). They do occasionally have late quitters.
I’ve tried different methods, I don’t mist or cool down, because it never seemed to be a benefit, but it’s hard to tell for sure. I also have different age ranges, as I’ve now had calls for 8+ years, so it could have to do with first-year layers, older layers, etc.
Honestly, I’ve mostly just chalked it up to being a Call thing.

 

[Wishapup]

Don’t have much time to answer right now, but my call hatch rates vary. Always seems like I lose a few in the last couple of days, some before internal pip, some after. No real clues as to why.
I can say that my hens have better hatch rates. Sometimes they hatch 100% (though I usually remove early quitters). They do occasionally have late quitters.
I’ve tried different methods, I don’t mist or cool down, because it never seemed to be a benefit, but it’s hard to tell for sure. I also have different age ranges, as I’ve now had calls for 8+ years, so it could have to do with first-year layers, older layers, etc.
Honestly, I’ve mostly just chalked it up to being a Call thing.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Do you dry hatch?

I have 8 more on day 18. They had been at 45-50% humidity like the others, but bator ran dry a couple days ago. I haven't refilled the water yet. After my first round, now I'm wondering if I should leave it at 29% for this last week of incubation.

No broodies right now to stick the eggs under at hatching time.

 

[WVduckchick]

Thanks for your thoughts!

Do you dry hatch?

I have 8 more on day 18. They had been at 45-50% humidity like the others, but bator ran dry a couple days ago. I haven't refilled the water yet. After my first round, now I'm wondering if I should leave it at 29% for this last week of incubation.

No broodies right now to stick the eggs under at hatching time.

I live in an area that is always very humid, so I do not add any water until the last 2-3 days. My incubator still maintains 30-35% humidity with zero water. 45-50 would be too high for my ducklings.
I wrote a humidity guide, it’s in my signature block below in red, that I’ve been told is pretty good, if I do say so myself.
(FYI If you are on a phone, you may have to turn your phone sideways to see signature blocks)

 

[nao57]

I believe I might be able to help you with this issue. This issue isn't a call duck issue but an incubation issue for many types of avians.

I first ran into a problem like yours one year where I had a mama duck in my back yard with my other ducks. She was hatching out a full cluster of eggs. The eggs hatched and within 2 days ALL of her ducklings were dead. Just like that. There was no reason for them to die. I had food, water. I gave them heat. I even risked bringing them inside.

...

A couple months passed.

And then I realized the feed mill was doing cheap feed. The egg production with the other ducks was below what it should be and frustrated easily. It wasn't consistent. I had all their egg production even stop for a time, at a time of year when it shouldn't have.

So I began re-thinking the nutrition on the feed. The feed from laying mash by itself isn't enough. The tell is how fragile the egg production can be interrupted. And this means if you don't boost the nutrition that even if the ducks can produce eggs,... those eggs can be so weak that whatever grows in them won't be strong enough to live. (THis is what likely happened to you.) The tell on this is that the egg production in the ducks can be sporadic if the nutrition isn't quite there.

And you can also test this by boosting the nutrition and seeing the egg production change. And by doing this, not just the egg production changes, but the yolk changes to deeper red or orange colors instead of just pale yellow. And also, the eggs will be stronger so that hatchlings hatched from higher nutrition will survive the infant stage better.

...

I've also found that the entire first 7 days of ducklings/chicks, etc they are ridiculously fragile in that first week. A lot can go wrong.

...

I believe thinking about this and how to boost the nutrition while the eggs are being produced will help you figure out how to make it work better next time. And I encourage you to not give up but keep trying. Some of these things just happen even when you didn't do anything wrong.