Can a history of lice cause neurological problems a year later?

[latti1]

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)
Ameraucana 2.5 years. Normal weight

2) What is the behavior, exactly.
Difficulty walking, sitting on haunches. Falls over

3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms? 1 week, getting worse

4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms? Yes, my second ameraucana. She is walking slightly better than the 1st, but feels very thin and her comb is pale. I also noticed her crop is significantly full but she’s feels like skin and bone

5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
No

6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
They had lice 1.5 years ago, but we’re treated. It took me a while to get it under control though. I’ve over the last year, I’ve lost 3 chickens at different times who presented similarly. All of the chickens who died also had the lice 1.5 years ago.


7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
Sunrise farms layer feed.

8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
Thick and fluffy

9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
Separation. I provided nutridrench to their water today

10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
Treat myself

11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.

12) Describe the housing/bedding in use
Large coop with covered run with good drainage. The 2 are now in my sick coop

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Lice that has been treated and controlled 1.5 years ago won't cause these symptoms now. Most of the typical poultry lice feed on the dead dander from the feathers, unlike northern fowl mite and red roost mite that actually feed on the blood of the bird which can cause anemia.

I'd go out with a flashlight and see if you have Northern Fowl Mite. They will look like quickly moving black specks of pepper on the skin of the chicken. Check at the vent which is usually the greatest infestation spot. An overgrowth of NFM can cause anemia and weakness. Lice typically just cause a lot of irritation and feather picking.

Have you also considered internal worms causing weakness? Check their poo for signs of worms. Worms are usually accompanied by messy vents from loose stools. Worms can definitely cause weakness and anemia.

But since it is "going through" the flock, you also need to consider disease. Marek's obviously comes to mind. I know that Avian Influenza is also going around, though I think you pretty much just wake up to a dead flock with AI.

It could be a lot of things, but if you used the normal poultry remedies for lice, I strongly doubt that had anything to do with it.

LofMc

 

[latti1]

Lice that has been treated and controlled 1.5 years ago won't cause these symptoms now. Most of the typical poultry lice feed on the dead dander from the feathers, unlike northern fowl mite and red roost mite that actually feed on the blood of the bird which can cause anemia.

I'd go out with a flashlight and see if you have Northern Fowl Mite. They will look like quickly moving black specks of pepper on the skin of the chicken. Check at the vent which is usually the greatest infestation spot. An overgrowth of NFM can cause anemia and weakness. Lice typically just cause a lot of irritation and feather picking.

Have you also considered internal worms causing weakness? Check their poo for signs of worms. Worms are usually accompanied by messy vents from loose stools. Worms can definitely cause weakness and anemia.

But since it is "going through" the flock, you also need to consider disease. Marek's obviously comes to mind. I know that Avian Influenza is also going around, though I think you pretty much just wake up to a dead flock with AI.

It could be a lot of things, but if you used the normal poultry remedies for lice, I strongly doubt that had anything to do with it.

LofMc

thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.
When checking for worms, are the worms moving? I see nothing moving but I do see static white like tiny hairs in the poop.
I have fenbendazole on hand.

Questions.
Should I treat my whole flock for worms right now? I have 8 other hens and 4 pullets.

Should I be treating the flock regularly for this?

Thank you again for your guidance

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Without fecal samples from a vet, which is the only certain way to know if you have or don't have worms, many feel it is important to worm hens seasonally if you are on small holdings (like a backyard) as worms build up in time.

Symptoms of worms are diarrhea or loose stools, dirty vents (from said poo), thinness, listlessness, poor egg production. Sometimes you can see worms in the poo, most of the time you can't. A threadlike substance in poo can indicate worms (unless it is simply streak of white which is urate).

If it were my hens, and I didn't want to incur the expense of a vet, I would begin to treat for worms with the fenbendazole. I'd also dust them for mites or lice since something is reducing their health.

If that perks them up...that was the answer. If not, then we are back to disease.

LofMc

 

[latti1]

Without fecal samples from a vet, which is the only certain way to know if you have or don't have worms, many feel it is important to worm hens seasonally if you are on small holdings (like a backyard) as worms build up in time.

Symptoms of worms are diarrhea or loose stools, dirty vents (from said poo), thinness, listlessness, poor egg production. Sometimes you can see worms in the poo, most of the time you can't. A threadlike substance in poo can indicate worms (unless it is simply streak of white which is urate).

If it were my hens, and I didn't want to incur the expense of a vet, I would begin to treat for worms with the fenbendazole. I'd also dust them for mites or lice since something is reducing their health.

If that perks them up...that was the answer. If not, then we are back to disease.

LofMc

I will start treating with the fenbendazole. Thank you very, very, much for your guidance!!

 

[latti1]

Without fecal samples from a vet, which is the only certain way to know if you have or don't have worms, many feel it is important to worm hens seasonally if you are on small holdings (like a backyard) as worms build up in time.

Symptoms of worms are diarrhea or loose stools, dirty vents (from said poo), thinness, listlessness, poor egg production. Sometimes you can see worms in the poo, most of the time you can't. A threadlike substance in poo can indicate worms (unless it is simply streak of white which is urate).

If it were my hens, and I didn't want to incur the expense of a vet, I would begin to treat for worms with the fenbendazole. I'd also dust them for mites or lice since something is reducing their health.

If that perks them up...that was the answer. If not, then we are back to disease.
P
LofMc

This morning I have two more questions I was hoping you could answer.

The remaining healthy flock is 8 hens and 4 two month old pullets in my large coop. Should I put the fenbendazole in their water? And do you think that’s okay for the pullets? They are much smaller than the rest.

Regarding the 2 sick chickens: I removed the feed/water overnight from the hens in the sick coop. The thin hen with the full crop continued to have an extremely full crop in the morning, after no food/water for 12 hours. Do you have any suggestions for this?
What a mess

Sincerely,

Lacey

 

[Lady of McCamley]

This morning I have two more questions I was hoping you could answer.

The remaining healthy flock is 8 hens and 4 two month old pullets in my large coop. Should I put the fenbendazole in their water? And do you think that’s okay for the pullets? They are much smaller than the rest.

Regarding the 2 sick chickens: I removed the feed/water overnight from the hens in the sick coop. The thin hen with the full crop continued to have an extremely full crop in the morning, after no food/water for 12 hours. Do you have any suggestions for this?
What a mess

Sincerely,

Lacey

General wisdom is to worm the whole flock once you see worms as they transfer on the ground from poo from one bird to another. I'm not sure at the 2 month old dosage, but often it's not different from adult. You can search on BYC or ask @casportpony.

I wouldn't remove food and water for 12 hours from the sick birds. I would hope they would get up and eat and drink whenever they felt like it. As to the full crop, at this point I would simply see if it goes down during the day. If it doesn't, then check for a compacted crop. Generally that is treated with some olive oil administered orally and massage. If you have that issue, I recommend creating a new thread in emergencies to get advice. I personally haven't dealt with a compacted crop that didn't go down with a little external massage. However, the slow crop may have to do more with a slow digestive system since the hen is ill.

Good luck.
LofMc

 

[latti1]

Without fecal samples from a vet, which is the only certain way to know if you have or don't have worms, many feel it is important to worm hens seasonally if you are on small holdings (like a backyard) as worms build up in time.

Symptoms of worms are diarrhea or loose stools, dirty vents (from said poo), thinness, listlessness, poor egg production. Sometimes you can see worms in the poo, most of the time you can't. A threadlike substance in poo can indicate worms (unless it is simply streak of white which is urate).

If it were my hens, and I didn't want to incur the expense of a vet, I would begin to treat for worms with the fenbendazole. I'd also dust them for mites or lice since something is reducing their health.

If that perks them up...that was the answer. If not, then we are back to disease.

LofMc

Thank you again for your guidance!

 

[McChooky]

What have you used to kill lice on your chickens?