Can roosters be "LOANED"

[Xerocles]

My idea is a little bit different from the OP. I am thinking of something like those Rent-a-chicken companies

Actually your idea is not very different from mine. With any breeding endeavor undertaken for mammalian livestock, the breeding experience is usually of short duration, typically under generally supervised conditions, and usually preceded by appropriate Health inspections and inoculations. On the other hand, judging from the opinions and posts given on this site, one is inclined to believe that anytime a chicken from flock A is introduce to flock B there will be a mass die-off from some horrible disease. In addition, since hens can retain sperm for two weeks or more, some isolation period would be required to ensure there will be no outside influences on the fertilization process.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm a total novice here. Chickens are a complete mystery to me. I'm asking. Not suggesting. But if I have a hen that I think, for whatever reason, is close enough to the SOP that I want to use her for breeding, and farmer Pro, from a farm reasonably nearby has a rooster that has been shown well in APA, and both have been certified NPIP AI clean, why wouldn't this work? Just as any breeding program, the sires owner would require a stud fee. After presentation of NPIP AI, and a physical inspection of the subject hen, the hen would be placed in isolation coop (for disease observation and assurance of no outside fertilization) for 30 to 45 days. Then, just as a doe rabbit is taken to the bucks enclosure, the hen would be placed in a breeding run with the rooster.
This makes sense to me. Instead of buying quality hatching eggs, raising a clutch for a year in hopes that one cockeral/cock will have the desired traits for a breeding program and being stuck with any other roosters, this would eliminate the time & expense to improve the genetics of a flock. Just as any other area of animal husbandry (i.e. equine and bovine breeding) stud fees are offset by the cost and time savings associated with trying to build a quality herd.
Again, I don't know. I'm just fishing for information from much more knowledgeable people. There have been some good points made in this thread as to why it won't work . I'm just wondering, can these drawbacks be overcome in a reasonable way? It just seems the chicken people are a little behind the curve on animal breeding husbandry. Cross breeding of quality stock seems to have been used for many years in other fields of livestock production. I just wonder why this has not been utilized for chickens.

 

[Kiki]

Actually your idea is not very different from mine. With any breeding endeavor undertaken for mammalian livestock, the breeding experience is usually of short duration, typically under generally supervised conditions, and usually preceded by appropriate Health inspections and inoculations. On the other hand, judging from the opinions and posts given on this site, one is inclined to believe that anytime a chicken from flock A is introduce to flock B there will be a mass die-off from some horrible disease. In addition, since hens can retain sperm for two weeks or more, some isolation period would be required to ensure there will be no outside influences on the fertilization process.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm a total novice here. Chickens are a complete mystery to me. I'm asking. Not suggesting. But if I have a hen that I think, for whatever reason, is close enough to the SOP that I want to use her for breeding, and farmer Pro, from a farm reasonably nearby has a rooster that has been shown well in APA, and both have been certified NPIP AI clean, why wouldn't this work? Just as any breeding program, the sires owner would require a stud fee. After presentation of NPIP AI, and a physical inspection of the subject hen, the hen would be placed in isolation coop (for disease observation and assurance of no outside fertilization) for 30 to 45 days. Then, just as a doe rabbit is taken to the bucks enclosure, the hen would be placed in a breeding run with the rooster.
This makes sense to me. Instead of buying quality hatching eggs, raising a clutch for a year in hopes that one cockeral/cock will have the desired traits for a breeding program and being stuck with any other roosters, this would eliminate the time & expense to improve the genetics of a flock. Just as any other area of animal husbandry (i.e. equine and bovine breeding) stud fees are offset by the cost and time savings associated with trying to build a quality herd.
Again, I don't know. I'm just fishing for information from much more knowledgeable people. There have been some good points made in this thread as to why it won't work . I'm just wondering, can these drawbacks be overcome in a reasonable way? It just seems the chicken people are a little behind the curve on animal breeding husbandry. Cross breeding of quality stock seems to have been used for many years in other fields of livestock production. I just wonder why this has not been utilized for chickens.

AI isn't the only nasty chicken disease out there.

 

[centrarchid]

The overwhelming majority of backyard flocks are dead enders. Birds are acquired some source, used, and lost to age, health, culling or depredation. Most such flocks are not self sustaining nor likely to leave significant numbers of offspring. Therefore a logical approach for such flock owners is to focus on preventing losses, at least keeping them down to a rate that can be compensated for by purchasing replacements from commercial vendors. I say the majority.

 

[SarahGfa]

A SOP rooster probably only costs $100 to buy, so the stud fee might be too low to be worth the effort.

Then again, the chicken rental companies charge $600+ to rent two hens for 6 months. What you are really paying for, is for the company to come and take the hens/coop back after the novelty wears off.

Maybe you could charge a lot for stud fee. The renter is not paying for the stud, the renter is paying for the rooster to go home when his work is done.

 

[Xerocles]

The overwhelming majority of backyard flocks are dead enders.

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. My dog is a mutt, a rescue from the pound. There's nothing special about her, and if she gets seriously injured or ill, I will put her down and go to the pound again. But. That doesn't help answer my question very much. I see you've been on BYC for over 10 years. I know nothing else about you, or your chickens. Are they a dead-end flock? My pitiful little six EEs provide me with more eggs than I can use. I backed into chicken keeping, with no more thought than, it would be nice to have fresh eggs. But I have become captivated by chickens and chicken Behavior. If this is to become more than a passing fancy, I would like to upgrade to outstanding examples of the breed I decide on. At 67 years Young, I don't have decades to gradually build the quality of my flock. In fact, even if a chicken stud service where to develop, it's probably too late for me. But I'm thinking of upcoming, serious Chicken Keepers, who would like to cut decades of crossbreeding down to years, instead. Chickens are a fad right now. But as with every fad, there will be a few serious hobbyists who will develop. Thinking of the future.

 

[Xerocles]

A SOP rooster probably only costs $100 to buy.

SIGHHHHH. Maybe I'm just too anxious. I'm going to the APA show in Georgia in February. Hoping to make some contacts. I would probably pay in the $200 range for the correct pair or Trio of a breed that I decide on. When all was said and done, I paid over $300 for my mutt dog from the pound. A quality dog approaching sop would have been vastly greater. Quality costs. It's just finding a quality breeder willing to part with his or her quality adult Birds.
But this whole thread was more about asking "why not".

 

[centrarchid]

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. My dog is a mutt, a rescue from the pound. There's nothing special about her, and if she gets seriously injured or ill, I will put her down and go to the pound again. But. That doesn't help answer my question very much. I see you've been on BYC for over 10 years. I know nothing else about you, or your chickens. Are they a dead-end flock? My pitiful little six EEs provide me with more eggs than I can use. I backed into chicken keeping, with no more thought than, it would be nice to have fresh eggs. But I have become captivated by chickens and chicken Behavior. If this is to become more than a passing fancy, I would like to upgrade to outstanding examples of the breed I decide on. At 67 years Young, I don't have decades to gradually build the quality of my flock. In fact, even if a chicken stud service where to develop, it's probably too late for me. But I'm thinking of upcoming, serious Chicken Keepers, who would like to cut decades of crossbreeding down to years, instead. Chickens are a fad right now. But as with every fad, there will be a few serious hobbyists who will develop. Thinking of the future.

I answered your question full with previous post. My birds do not represent dead end flocks. The gamefowl have been in my family for multiple human generations as in same strain of games. The American Dominique's are multi-generational in my care and three flocks have been founded at least in part based on them, 1 in Missouri not far from me and 2 more in Indiana. Former is a production flock and latter two are used for show very successfully.

I am future oriented and striving to ensure my lines continue after I am gone. It is very much a race against time and not regarded as a fad by me.

Get your hen bred to that good rooster to secure what may prove to be hatching eggs than can produce quality birds. Then get numbers up quick so you can do some selection from groups you know versus taking what someone else may or may not know. Do not over extend with two many breeds. Focus on one or two to do it correctly. Develop contacts with other breeders with whom you can do careful exchanges of breeding stock to introduce alleles your flock may need, but lacks.

When you are serious about breeding, be mindful of biosecurity, but do not assume disease issues make out-crossing impossible.

 

[123RedBeard]

Develop contacts with other breeders with whom you can do careful exchanges of breeding stock

This I agree with! much different than a "loaner" ...

Focus on one or two to do it correctly.

This too is VERY sage advise ... only one breed to begin with ...

 

[Xerocles]

My birds do not represent dead end flocks.

Centrarchid. I apologize, most humbly, if I offended you with my post. That is as far as possible the opposite of my intention. As my first sentence said, I agree wholeheartedly with what you said. I did not intend to cast any aspersions on your flock, your farm, you, or your lineage. I have only been on this site 5 months. I don't know you, or anyone else on this site. I am a chicken idiot. But I have learned enough that I would like to take this hobby seriously. I have no aspirations of becoming a " serious breeder" but I do want to make my breeding program serious. I don't foresee ever having even 20 Birds. But I want to be proud of the birds I do have. Should I choose to enter a chicken in a local show, I don't want the judge to have to suppress a laugh when he sees my bird. Plus the personal Pride of looking at my small flock and knowing inside " those are some beautiful birds."
I'm attending a local show (70 miles away) in two weeks. Honestly I don't expect to get a lot out of it, it's a 4-H type show. But when you have as little knowledge as I do, anything is a help. I also intend to attend the APA show in Georgia in February, which is supposed to be the largest APA show in the southeast. There I hope to vastly improve my knowledge and hopefully make some contacts. I also will take to Heart everything you said in your post.
Again, I apologize for any offence you took from my post. I simply stated the obvious, I don't know you, I don't know your chickens. It appears that many of the more vocal people on this site are here for social reasons as much as for chickens.

 

[SueT]

I recall reading about someone borrowing a rooster from a fellow chicken fancier for breeding their hen. I don't remember who it was, but I'll bet others already do it too, perhaps from the breeder(s) who supplied their hens.