Can somebody answer this? ACV & Geese? Good or Bad?

[chickenlady08]

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I read it on a post on BYC. I know it helps the chickens out with lots of stuff and flushes their system out. I just was able to find the organic Braggs ACV and that smells so good I could drink it. And not sure if you been hearing about it on the news and other places but it supposedly has lots of health benefits for humans as well. I am thinking about trying it.

 

[chickenlady08]

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Thanks Adrian. I only use about 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. And I only have gallon waterers in the coops with them. I have 4 or 5 waterers in there.

 

[Puddle Foot Farm]

We are in Clarksburg, MD. It is called Green Earth Goods. Technically, we are still an organic general store, but we will soon cut back to only pet supplies. We actually grow organic kale on the side of the store for our geese, but they also love all the organic lettuce we save for them. They are wonderfully spoiled little creatures.

You're very welcome about the input. I love ACV - it has saved our babies many times.

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[goosedragon]

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Thanks Adrian. I only use about 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. And I only have gallon waterers in the coops with them. I have 4 or 5 waterers in there.

First of all adrian geese don't have crops, chickens do, but not waterfowl. OF coures adding sour vinegar to a 'sour crop' is going to help.....

 

[Puddle Foot Farm]

Here is a diagram of the goose digestive system: http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/Y4359E/y4359e05.htm#bm05 This was published by scholars from the UN FAO.

 

[OmaBird]

I have never given it to mine but I wonder if it could benifit a few things. One being just one more thing you can do that just might help prevent angel wings. Vinegar actualy slows digestion and lowers the Glycemic index of the food they eat. Sugar is one theory as a cause for angle wings. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Wing

If you have ever had a tummy ache or acid reflux anf you drank apple cider vinegar in water it takes the acid away when nothing else works.

I know a hundered uses for ACV and it is used in all types of animals. I used it when I showed horses. It makes white, whiter so if anything you geese might look cleaner.

Here is a link http://poultrykeeper.com/common-articles-to-all-poultry/general/apple-cider-vinegar.html

 

[adrian]

Most birds have crops-- in fact, I think only penguins, gulls and owls do not (although there may be more I've forgotten). They may not be visible or palpable, but they are still there - large or not. In ducks and geese, they are quite small; just a little holding chamber, so to speak, on the way to the stomach.

A sour crop does not indicate a sour flavor, so sour vinegar would not effect this, anyway. Sour crop, which is usually known as a step up from "slow crop", describes a crop that is not emptying. The "sourness" comes from the fact that, in a crop that won't empty, there is often spoiled food... Bacterial and fungus infections, then, can become serious issues. And ACV is quite different from regular vinegar, particularly the organic kind that has been mentioned. I don't care what anyone says; I have been using ACV for years in many different bird species - ducks, geese, chickens; parrots, pigeons, doves... It is known to help move the digestive system along and many a time, along with a regimen of rehydration, has saved birds' lives.

Why is this? From what I have heard (although it is contrary to what one person just posted, I realize) ACV stimulates the digestive tract to move food along, similar to what apple sauce has been known to do. Unlike apple sauce, it does not leech fluids from the intestines, so is better to use when dehydration is present. It also kills bacteria and fungus quite well. It is often used as a disinfectant in the parrot world; one of the only things that will effectively kill Aspergillus fungus, for instance. I have used it before as a disinfectant when handling that very thing. It is also good to note that, apparently, organic, unpasteurized ACV "with mother" has a decent quantity of natural prebiotics and probiotics. I'm not sure whether or not this is just all talk, but one thing's for sure: ACV does have a use.

Of course, ACV cannot replace real medications. It can help, it can provide supportive care, but it will not help with heavy infections. Many vets suggest using ACV when a fungal/bacterial infection is present, but is too slight to warrant antibiotic/antifungal use. In short, it is a good supplement that, while having very little use in terms of nutrient composition... Is largely effective when used for low-grade, chronic fungal and bacterial infections, or just getting a bird back onto its feet. Really helps to use it when they are under stress, along with vitamin water and hydrating fluids.

I also thought it important to note that, although ACV is vinegar, and you'd think it is highly acidic... It is not. It is quite the opposite. It is said to be "alkaline". That is probably why it would neutralize stomach acids.

 

[VelvetDragon]

ACV is definitely acidic, not alkaline. The pH varies widely due to commercial distillation and dilution practices, but it is never alkaline. Vinegar is made by converting alcohol to acetic acid. A popular brand of ACV, Bragg's, has a pH of around 3.75. (7 is neutral; anything under that is acidic, and anything over that is alkaline.) The pH of vinegar is easily testable with a pH kit. Distilled vinegars are generally a bit more acidic, in the range of 2.5 or so.

I have read some sites, however, that claim ACV has an alkaline effect on the body, which may be the cause of confusion. However, all the studies I have read indicate that it is acidifying to the digestive tract, not alkalizing, just like any other vinegar. Digestive tracts are supposed to be acidic, so this isn't a bad thing.

Vinegar CAN have bad side effects -- too strong and it can cause damage to the digestive tract; long term heavy use of vinegar can cause osteoporosis (bone loss) and hypokalemia (too low blood potassium). So keep this in mind when using it on your animals.

ACV does have health benefits for humans. The effect of lowering the glycemic index of foods it is consumed with is well documented (glycemic index is how high foods make a person's blood sugar raise, and is related to things like developing diabetes). However, its use as a tonic in animals is less studied.

Many birds produce far less stomach acid than mammals, relying instead on more mechanical methods of digestion (a complicated system involving the crop, stomach and gizzard). However, the pH of a bird's stomach varies widely by species (vulture stomachs are insanely acidic!).

Vinegar in general (not just ACV) kills germs on nonporous surfaces due to its acidity. Many (but not all) germs can't survive in acidity under 3 or 4. I use diluted distilled white vinegar to disinfect things in a bird- and animal-safe way. (It also gives a streak-free shine to windows!) Bacterial infections are a huge problem with birds, so disinfecting helps their health a lot! Birds are also very susceptible to poisoning from cleaners, so vinegar is a safe alternative to chemicals.

However, it will not have an effect on germs in a human or animal's body. The pH of the stomach is already 1-3 during digestion, so any bugs susceptible to high acidity are already dead. Extensive studies have shown it is ineffective at treating bacterial or fungal infections or lice, whether taken internally or topically. It will not eliminate an internal parasite infection.

ACV has potassium and some other minerals and vitamins in it, so may be used as a supplement by some people. As with most vitamins and minerals, it is important to have the proper balance of these in the diet, or it will lead to imbalances in the body.

Some animals seem to like the taste and will drink more if it is in their water, so people may add it to water on a hot day. (However, make sure your animals DO like it! Some animals will not drink from water with a funny taste and dehydration can quickly turn deadly.) But it also increases the feeling of fullness, so it may cause animals to eat less.

It's not a cure-all but it may have some benefits for people and animals.

(Disclaimer, of course: I'm not a vet. Consult a vet before changing or modifying your animals' diets.)

Edited for spelling.