Can someone define silver pied to me

[KsKingBee]

ok,

thank you.

 

[DylansMom]

That is not how i read it. it says white right?

I remember reading that a white will produce different offspring than a white out of silver pieds. They carry different genes, but the white is masking what they are carrying and so they produce different offspring, so that may be correct. I just am not sure where I read it.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

That is not how i read it. it says white right?

Yes it says white, but i'm sure they meant the white peafowls out of silver pied mating, you can't get silver pied chicks from regular white as i know, that what Josh Nelson told me, he says i will get 50% whites and 50% pieds from this mating, he also told me from his experience mating these offspring together will give me many silver pied chicks.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

I remember reading that a white will produce different offspring than a white out of silver pieds. They carry different genes, but the white is masking what they are carrying and so they produce different offspring, so that may be correct. I just am not sure where I read it.

Yes thats right, whites out of silver pieds are different.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

ok from chick pictures I was told Houdina is a silver pied.
I don't see this silvery look to her colored feathers...
I mean theres a little you can see on her wing feathers there, but its more of a speckled white, not silvery... so is she not silver pied but loud? I know nothing
first pict shes the one in front, with just dark spot on her back and head. 2nd pict is 14 weeks and other two are recent - two years.
I don't know how to look at her and "see" if she has the genes.

Pretty peahen, i think its a pied peahen too, she looks a lot like my pied peahen.

 

[zazouse]

Yes thats right, whites out of silver pieds are different.

If you bred a white to a pied you would also get 50% white 50% white so it only makes sence that you would get 50/50 with the silver to white mating unless i am missing something here.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

If you bred a white to a pied you would also get 50% white 50% white so it only makes sence that you would get 50/50 with the silver to white mating unless i am missing something here.

Your thinking is right if these white and pied are regular white and pied, i was confused just like you when i start reading about silver pied genetics, i was searching in the web about mating silver pied peafowl with regular white because i have an opal silver pied male and i wanted to put a white hen with him to get some silver chicks, but i didn't get much info on the web so i asked Josh. And to be more clear here, he said mating the pieds offspring together(out of silver and white mating) will give me many silver chicks, he didn't mention something about mating the whites with the pieds which both came from silver and white mating, but i think this mating will also gives some silver chicks.

Here is his answer to my question:
1- What i will get if i crossed a silver pied male with regular white hen(not from silver pied mating) what the off spring will be? 50% of the birds will be White and 50% will be pied. Out of the pied birds you will get Silver Pied and regular pied. From our experience most will be Silver pied with just a few that are regular Pied.

 

[AugeredIn]

With regard to you comments about why the peafowl breeders are so confused and no one is enlightened like other bird species, I would suggest it is just a numbers game. There are MAYBE five breeders that are driving the peafowl industry and that possess 99% of the knowledge. Now they certainly protect some information as they would obviously like to recover their cost on some of the genetic creations but there is really no great conspiracy to withhold knowledge. If you were to call one of them and you were known to them, they all are free with information. In many cases they, quite frankly don't know the answer because they just don't have the inclination to experiment. They don't, however, like to participate in public forums for many reasons. The first is that they immediately get asked why bird X is $500 and then get ragged on for four pages.

Silver pied genetics is just one such topic. It is patently obvious that there is a difference between a pied white eye bird and a silver pied bird. They both have a pied gene, a white gene and two white eye genes. From breeding patterns they have observed, it is OBVIOUS that MOST LIKELY the silver pied white eye gene is different than the regular white eye gene. Here are seven pages about the issue and the discussion has still not latched on to this.

It is not like the big breeders don't care. I can tell you one question at least one is playing with is (1) is the white eye gene the mutated gene or is the white or pied gene the mutated gene and (2) if the silver pied white eye gene is different from the regular white eye gene what does a bird with one regular white eye gene and one silver pied white eye gene look like?

 

[Rosa moschata]

This statement is incorrect if the silver pied white eye mutation is not the same as the regular white eye mutation. A pied bird with a single silver pied white eye gene is technically split to silver pied.

With regard to you comments about why the peafowl breeders are so confused and no one is enlightened like other bird species, I would suggest it is just a numbers game. There are MAYBE five breeders that are driving the peafowl industry and that possess 99% of the knowledge. Now they certainly protect some information as they would obviously like to recover their cost on some of the genetic creations but there is really no great conspiracy to withhold knowledge. If you were to call one of them and you were known to them, they all are free with information. In many cases they, quite frankly don't know the answer because they just don't have the inclination to experiment. They don't, however, like to participate in public forums for many reasons. The first is that they immediately get asked why bird X is $500 and then get ragged on for four pages.

Silver pied genetics is just one such topic. It is patently obvious that there is a difference between a pied white eye bird and a silver pied bird. They both have a pied gene, a white gene and two white eye genes. From breeding patterns they have observed, it is OBVIOUS that MOST LIKELY the silver pied white eye gene is different than the regular white eye gene. Here are seven pages about the issue and the discussion has still not latched on to this.

It is not like the big breeders don't care. I can tell you one question at least one is playing with is (1) is the white eye gene the mutated gene or is the white or pied gene the mutated gene and (2) if the silver pied white eye gene is different from the regular white eye gene what does a bird with one regular white eye gene and one silver pied white eye gene look like?

All due respect -- this is a reply to your statement, and not to be taken personally.



No, the statement is not incorrect. When you take a bird which all will agree has a phenotype that fits the "Silver Pied" definition, that phenotype will be the result of three known separate mutations, and possibly one additional "silver dusting" mutation or variation. Being "split" to something means the individual has a heterozygous genotype for the the trait or traits of concern. A bird can be split to Blackshoulder if it has one normal version and one Blackshoulder version of that gene. A bird can be split to Opal if it has one normal version and one Opal version of that gene. A bird can be split to both -- one copy each of Blackshoulder and Opal, and one copy each of the normal version of those genes. But a bird can't have one copy of all the ingredients for "Silver Pied" AND one copy of the normal version of each gene (which is the definition of being "split") because White and Pied are alleles.

If you want to say that this "Silver Pied" version of White Eye, or the unknown separate mutation -- which is an additional necessary (but not sufficient*) ingredient for the complete phenotype -- is the mutation to which a bird is split, then that mutation should be called something else. This is because saying a bird can be "split to Silver Pied" implies that a pair of such birds would thus be capable of producing Silver Pied offspring -- but when used as you argue, that would not be the case. Again, it's an improper usage of genetics terminology that results in additional confusion.

*Other mutation names match their phenotype names when birds are homozygous for those mutations because those mutations are necessary and sufficient for those phenotypes. In other words, take a Midnight peacock. Its plumage color difference from normal India Blue is the result of only one mutation being had in the homozygous condition (i.e. the visual Midnight bird needs to have two copies of the Midnight mutation, and no other mutation is needed -- necessary and sufficient, respectively). That is not the case with Silver Pied as you describe it -- the ingredient is, as you describe it, necessary for the Silver Pied phenotype, but it is not sufficient. To be Silver Pied in phenotype, additional mutations (White and Pied) are needed. Now look at Oatens -- the mutations Cameo and Blackshoulder are both necessary for the phenotype, but neither is sufficient alone. That case is not confusing because we don't call either Cameo or Blackshoulder the "Oaten mutation" even though each is a necessary ingredient responsible for the Oaten phenotype -- Oaten was a new name given to a phenotype resulting from more than one already-named mutation. Giving a necessary but not sufficient ingredient for a phenotpye the same name as the phenotype is confusing.

 

[Dany12]

Is there Macaw Silver Pied ?
Is there silver Pied mutation with other birds ?