Can someone explain internal laying for me?

[MotherhenXOXO]

Hello everyone. I apologize in advance if I am posting this in the wrong place. It's more knowledge due to a recent loss. My girl Lizzy would lay her eggs, sit, then be done for a while like every other hen. But with her, she would have labored breathing only while laying flat or doing certain activities. This would last ten days or so before it's time for her to get her egg out. About three our four days before she would lay that egg she would nest a few hours like she is about to lay an egg but she only sits. No trying to push or straining. Just nesting. Back to that tenth day, she lays her egg and it is longer then normal. Her labored breathing stops. After that first egg all the rest are normal. No labored breathing no nesting without laying an egg just still soft shells. She sits after she accumulated enough then she is done. The whole process starts over again. It's a while before she starts to begin needing to lay eggs again. The same thing as the last time , I think? She began labored breathing again for about ten days or so..This time and last time I did keep checking her vent but felt nothing there. Her comb is beautiful and her droppings are very healthy too. She acts normal besides this breathing. Finally, it's time to lay her egg..I assumed it would turn out like the first time, she would get the egg out and be fine. Within six hours she died. I should add, I know she was struggling with calcium and/or reproductive issues because when she first began laying eggs she struggled badly. She would favor one leg till the egg came out but the eggs were normal. She just simply struggled until it was so hard on her she became unable to walk. I became her legs for two years. Also after this all her shells were soft no matter what we did as far as calcium goes. I even was giving her vitamin b complex. Despite all that, 1she was happy, active, and very healthy looking. I never got the chance to see if that egg was longer or bigger this last time since she never passed it due to her dying within six hours. I do believe it was larger then it should be because I felt her vent and it was big and hard. Plus this time she wouldn't even try to push and eventually her beak was wide open and she would randomly shake her head like a wet dog. I've been trying to figure this out and came across internal laying, but everytime I read about it, it usually states yolk and not a whole egg. Is it possible that she had labored breathing for many days before laying her egg because her body was forming multiple eggs into one big one with a soft shell causing the time duration to be longer than forming one normal egg? Maybe this last time it just got so big she couldn't even push and maybe the first time she got lucky enough it was just a bit longer and not fatter? I didn't intervene because it always takes her a while and for this last time I took action when she stopped drinking, her beak stayed wide open, and that head shaking thing started. Instantly she died from me gently applying oil to her vent.. I hope whoever reads this understands what I am explaining and asking. If this could possibly be what was going on with her it will bring me a bit of closure but it will be upsetting at the same time cause I read about this while she was still alive and dismissed it cause she didn't have yolk in her droppings and I never found anything sounding close to what she was going through cause her only symptom was long periods of labored breathing then a long egg .But just maybe, if this may have been the case this post may save another baby. Thank you all.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

So dorry for youf loss. Trying to understsnd this. Shd would go ten days withiut kaying any eggs, correct? Then for three of four days she would sit in the nest every day but not strain or do anything. Then on the 10th day she would lay a big, ling egg. And then you say this:

After that first egg all the rest are normal. No labored breathing no nesting without laying an egg just still soft shells. She sits after she accumulated enough then she is done.

What do you mean when you say "all the rest are normal?" Does she lay normal eggs for several days? But then what about the soft shell eggs? When does she lay those, and how many? I don't understand what you mean when you say "she sits after she has accumulated enough then she is done." Does she lay a bunch of eggs at a time?
...

 

[MotherhenXOXO]

So dorry for youf loss. Trying to understsnd this. Shd would go ten days withiut kaying any eggs, correct? Then for three of four days she would sit in the nest every day but not strain or do anything. Then on the 10th day she would lay a big, ling egg. And then you say this:


What do you mean when you say "all the rest are normal?" Does she lay normal eggs for several days? But then what about the soft shell eggs? When does she lay those, and how many? I don't understand what you mean when you say "she sits after she has accumulated enough then she is done." Does she lay a bunch of eggs at a time?
...

She would have labored breathing ten days prior to her laying her first egg.it is also longer than it should be. The labored breathing stops once she gets that first egg out.
All of her eggs are soft shelled no matter what. After that first egg, all the rest she has no odd behavior, just still soft shells and normal size. ,( no labored breathing and nesting) When she has laid enough and is done sitting on them the whole process starts over again. First egg of the next batch causes labored breathing for ten days or so, and too long, until she she gets it out. Rest after that are normal size but soft
. We replace her soft eggs with normal eggs.
During that ten days she nests for a few hours not everyday but often. No trying to push or straining..

 

[MotherhenXOXO]

So dorry for youf loss. Trying to understsnd this. Shd would go ten days withiut kaying any eggs, correct? Then for three of four days she would sit in the nest every day but not strain or do anything. Then on the 10th day she would lay a big, ling egg. And then you say this:


What do you mean when you say "all the rest are normal?" Does she lay normal eggs for several days? But then what about the soft shell eggs? When does she lay those, and how many? I don't understand what you mean when you say "she sits after she has accumulated enough then she is done." Does she lay a bunch of eggs at a time?
...

When I say sitting, I mean broody. Thought I should add that too.

 

[Eggcessive]

It sounds like she may be suffering from internal laying or salpingitis (inflammation) of the oviduct which can cause soft or shell-less eggs, laying parts of an egg (yolk, albumen, or shell,) or lash egg material. Those an lead to egg yolk peritonitis (also called coelomitis.) Here is an explanation of what internal laying is:
https://nutrenaworld.com/laying-issues-internal-layers-and-peritonitis/

 

[BigBlueHen53]

She would have labored breathing ten days prior to her laying her first egg.it is also longer than it should be. The labored breathing stops once she gets that first egg out.
All of her eggs are soft shelled no matter what. After that first egg, all the rest she has no odd behavior, just still soft shells and normal size. ,( no labored breathing and nesting) When she has laid enough and is done sitting on them the whole process starts over again. First egg of the next batch causes labored breathing for ten days or so, and too long, until she she gets it out. Rest after that are normal size but soft
. We replace her soft eggs with normal eggs.
During that ten days she nests for a few hours not everyday but often. No trying to push or straining..

Thank you for clarifying. Man, my typing was awful, I'm glad you could make sense of it! I'd had a Rx change and it made me a bit woozy!

 

[MotherhenXOXO]

It sounds like she may be suffering from internal laying or salpingitis (inflammation) of the oviduct which can cause soft or shell-less eggs, laying parts of an egg (yolk, albumen, or shell,) or lash egg material. Those an lead to egg yolk peritonitis (also called coelomitis.) Here is an explanation of what internal laying is:
https://nutrenaworld.com/laying-issues-internal-layers-and-peritonitis/

I read that article and what is says did not describe her, that is why I assumed that wasn't her problem. It states egg yolk gets stuck, swollen abdomen, and yoke in her droppings. She never felt like her abdomen was swollen till it came time to lay her egg. Her droppings never had yoke in them. Actually, her poops looked very, very healthy. And I believe peritonitis causes a swollen abdomen, right? She never appeared swollen, lethargic and had a very good appetite. Her comb fluctuated in size from being broody, but never pale or dried, nothing like that..I dismissed internal laying because all of the symptoms it says did not describe her, but I was thinking maybe it affected her a little differently. Not only egg yoke but soft shelled eggs multipling into more then one. No infection because no yoke was being left behind and the labored breathing day prior her laying her egg do to pressure because of multiple eggs forming into one making the whole process to take longer compared to one normal egg. Would all this be considered internal laying even without those symptoms being present in the article you posted?

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Can you post a picture of this big egg and any other eggs she lays, any soft shell eggs or just yolks or anything she lays? It would help if we could see what you're seeing. It sounds like she's laying several in a single day, is that right?

 

[MotherhenXOXO]

Can you post a picture of this big egg and any other eggs she lays, any soft shell eggs or just yolks or anything she lays? It would help if we could see what you're seeing. It sounds like she's laying several in a single day, is that right?

Unfortunately, she is no longer with me. She died trying to lay her last egg. Before she died she had that labored breathing for ten days like I was talking about.
When she was still here only the first egg of each clutch she laid she would have that labored breathing for very long periods of time till she got the egg out which would be longer in size. After that first egg the rest are normal size with no labored breathing. She would become broody and try to hatch them, decides she is done trying to hatch them. When she starts laying again after being broody the whole process starts again. EVERY egg is soft, though, just the first one of each clutch is larger than the rest.
Unfortunately, I didn't save any eggs because they were fragile. They all looked like a normal egg, but thin shelled and if you tried to squeeze them, they would dent/wrinkle. Too much squeezing would easily bust them open
No, she did not lay several eggs in one day. One egg once a day or every other day. I was just asking if it were possible her body was forming multiple eggs into one big egg or long egg causing a delay for her to get it out and the labored breathing for ten days. I think this last time it was way too big for her to pass and it probably was pressing against her organs because she wouldn't even try to push, her beak was wide open and she kept shaking her head like a wet dog does, I believe from pain.

First egg... Long and soft. Labored breathing for many days. Breathing issue resolved once that egg is out.

Second, third egg, so on.... Normal sizes all SOFT. No labored breathing

Broody, stops laying and sits trying to hatch them.

Done trying to hatch no longer broody.

Takes a break and eventually the labored breathing starts again and the whole process starts over to step one.

Maybe putting it in steps makes it more clear. Note we had to give her hard shell eggs to replace the soft ones so she would want to try and hatch them. No rooster... So no chicks possible.

Questioning if this could have been internal laying now. Had dismissed the possibility when she was still here cause the symptoms really didn't match as stated in my post in regards to a link Eggcessive shared with me about internal laying.? Maybe I was wrong and it was internal laying? Thank you for reading all this and sorry I can't seem to explain it clearly.

 

[NatJ]

Unfortunately, she is no longer with me. She died trying to lay her last egg.

Questioning if this could have been internal laying now. Had dismissed the possibility when she was still here cause the symptoms really didn't match as stated in my post in regards to a link Eggcessive shared with me about internal laying.? Maybe I was wrong and it was internal laying? Thank you for reading all this and sorry I can't seem to explain it clearly.

A necropsy would probably answer the question. If that is not possible, it may never be possible to know for sure if she had trouble with internal laying, or if she was having some other problem instead.