I have never understood the genetics behind lavender.. can someone please break it down for me?
Can someone explain "self blue" or Lavender to me
- Thread starter iajewel
- Start date
Lavender or self-blue is a color gene that attaches itself to the black gene.
Black birds are genetically bl,bl.
Once you breed and have the lavender color showing "true" it means that both black genes are being covered by the lavender gene. So in essence the bl is being hidden by the lavender.
Now, if you breed that lavender bird to say a splash, the resulting birds will all be blue. Splash being BL,BL and blue being BL,bl. BUT, the bl from the lavender bird will still have the lavender gene attached to it.
Did that help? Or just make your head spin? I know my head hurts!
Black birds are genetically bl,bl.
Once you breed and have the lavender color showing "true" it means that both black genes are being covered by the lavender gene. So in essence the bl is being hidden by the lavender.
Now, if you breed that lavender bird to say a splash, the resulting birds will all be blue. Splash being BL,BL and blue being BL,bl. BUT, the bl from the lavender bird will still have the lavender gene attached to it.
Did that help? Or just make your head spin? I know my head hurts!
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- Thread starter
- #3
both.. It helped and yet Im still confused .... So does the lavander gene just appear? or does it have to be introduced? I assume it has little to do with blues, other then it is a recessive of black, like the blue? Or.. am I really getting confused?
nope. Blue is different than lavender. Lavender ALWAYS breeds true once you have the color showing. If you have two lavender birds, you will only and always get lavender offspring.
Because the blue color is a combination of splash and black. Think of blue as the color orange in paint. in order to get orange, you mix yellow and red paint. The shade of orange you get can vary but it can only be achieved by mixing red and yellow. Blue in birds is like that. You have to have the gene from splash, BL and the gene from black, bl to make a blue bird, BL,bl. Then once you get a blue (BL,bl) bird and you breed them together, you can have any combination of those genetice BL,bl X BL, bl - which can be blue, black or splash.
Lavender has to be introduced. That is to say some where along the line, a lavender bird was used if you have lavender showing up. That is why in the us lavender orpingtons are ALL still projects. The color was introduced using a different breed and now people are working to get the orpington back to APA standard in order to get it as a recognized color. No lavender orpington, that I am aware of, in this country is 100% orpington. Some are further out from the orpginal, generationally, but none is 100% orp.
Better, or no?
Because the blue color is a combination of splash and black. Think of blue as the color orange in paint. in order to get orange, you mix yellow and red paint. The shade of orange you get can vary but it can only be achieved by mixing red and yellow. Blue in birds is like that. You have to have the gene from splash, BL and the gene from black, bl to make a blue bird, BL,bl. Then once you get a blue (BL,bl) bird and you breed them together, you can have any combination of those genetice BL,bl X BL, bl - which can be blue, black or splash.
Lavender has to be introduced. That is to say some where along the line, a lavender bird was used if you have lavender showing up. That is why in the us lavender orpingtons are ALL still projects. The color was introduced using a different breed and now people are working to get the orpington back to APA standard in order to get it as a recognized color. No lavender orpington, that I am aware of, in this country is 100% orpington. Some are further out from the orpginal, generationally, but none is 100% orp.
Better, or no?
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xyresicchick
Songster
The difference is lav is a true color gene, but blue/splash is a dilute gene.
when you breed lav to black you get all blacks with one copy of the lavender gene that is still hidden by the black gene. The offspring of the lav splits will result in black and lav chicks.
When you breed blue/splash to black it dilutes the black color of the offspring to blue. If you continue to breed blue to blue it dilutes further and creates splash. If you continue to breed splash to splash, the chicks from that mating will be even lighter, and eventually may look white.
When you breed lav to lav you always get lav offspring, it never dilutes. That is the difference.
when you breed lav to black you get all blacks with one copy of the lavender gene that is still hidden by the black gene. The offspring of the lav splits will result in black and lav chicks.
When you breed blue/splash to black it dilutes the black color of the offspring to blue. If you continue to breed blue to blue it dilutes further and creates splash. If you continue to breed splash to splash, the chicks from that mating will be even lighter, and eventually may look white.
When you breed lav to lav you always get lav offspring, it never dilutes. That is the difference.
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Being that blue is a color comprised of a black gene and a splash gene, I 'm missing how it can dilute in a blue to blue breeding. Splash to splash I can almost see, since you can only get a splash from a splash x splash mating. blue to blue will indeed create splash in a certain percentage, but it will also create black.
Blue to blue mating - BL,bl X BL,Bl
which result in BL, BL 25%
BL,bl 50%
bl,bl 25%
You take one gene from each parent....1st to 1st - splash
1st to 2nd - blue
2nd to 1st - blue
2nd to 2nd - black
You may get varying shades but I'm not getting the idea that a blue to blue over time dilutes to splash. Genetically, that doesn't work out.
Being that blue is a color comprised of a black gene and a splash gene, I 'm missing how it can dilute in a blue to blue breeding. Splash to splash I can almost see, since you can only get a splash from a splash x splash mating. blue to blue will indeed create splash in a certain percentage, but it will also create black.
Blue to blue mating - BL,bl X BL,Bl
which result in BL, BL 25%
BL,bl 50%
bl,bl 25%
You take one gene from each parent....1st to 1st - splash
1st to 2nd - blue
2nd to 1st - blue
2nd to 2nd - black
You may get varying shades but I'm not getting the idea that a blue to blue over time dilutes to splash. Genetically, that doesn't work out.
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- Thread starter
- #7
Absolutly much better.. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this. I now understand why the Lav Orps don't look as good.. Its all clear as day now.. Thank you...
Here, this guy explains it better than me......
"Colour Genetics of Blue Birds
Written by Tim Daniels
Tuesday, 23 September 2008 09:59
If blue birds (genetic code Bb) are mated together, they throw a percentage of off' colours in their progeny (youngsters), the probability being 25% blacks (BB), 25% blue splashed whites (bb) as well as 50% blues (Bb). You need to breed a sufficiently large number to acieve this percentage - remember this is a probabilty.
Black and blue splashed whites are homozygous and the blues are heterozygous - i.e. they produce equal number of black and blue splashed white gametes. This can be tested by breeding the blacks or the blue splashed whites with themselves and each will breed true to its respective type. This means they are in fact the pure breeds. The blues are not pure bred, they carry two colour genes and no amount of breeding selection will ever make them breed true.
Blacks and the blue splashed whites can be useful. If they are bred together, their progeny will be 100% blue therefore producing twice as many as when just mating blues together although there are different shades of blue and some come out darker than others and if you are wanting the birds for showing or breeding, you only get about 50% of the 'blues' that show the desired shade of colouring.
Mendel's law of inheritance, says each chick recieves two genes, one from the mother and one from the father. Since blue is made up of 2 colour genes - black (BB) and splash (bb), the laws of probability say we have 4 different possibilities when crossing Blue with Blue. BB, Bb, bB, bb.
The following combinations are achievable:
Blue X Blue = 50% Blue, 25% Black, 25% Splash
Blue X Black = 50% Blue, 50% Black
Blue X Splash = 50% Blue, 50% Splash
Black X Black = 100% Black
Splash X Splash = 100% Splash
Splash X Black = 100% Blue"
I know it may be a tad more confusing about the letter usage, but depending on which article you read depends on the use of "b" or "bl". On BYC, most always you will see "bl".
"Colour Genetics of Blue Birds
Written by Tim Daniels
Tuesday, 23 September 2008 09:59
If blue birds (genetic code Bb) are mated together, they throw a percentage of off' colours in their progeny (youngsters), the probability being 25% blacks (BB), 25% blue splashed whites (bb) as well as 50% blues (Bb). You need to breed a sufficiently large number to acieve this percentage - remember this is a probabilty.
Black and blue splashed whites are homozygous and the blues are heterozygous - i.e. they produce equal number of black and blue splashed white gametes. This can be tested by breeding the blacks or the blue splashed whites with themselves and each will breed true to its respective type. This means they are in fact the pure breeds. The blues are not pure bred, they carry two colour genes and no amount of breeding selection will ever make them breed true.
Blacks and the blue splashed whites can be useful. If they are bred together, their progeny will be 100% blue therefore producing twice as many as when just mating blues together although there are different shades of blue and some come out darker than others and if you are wanting the birds for showing or breeding, you only get about 50% of the 'blues' that show the desired shade of colouring.
Mendel's law of inheritance, says each chick recieves two genes, one from the mother and one from the father. Since blue is made up of 2 colour genes - black (BB) and splash (bb), the laws of probability say we have 4 different possibilities when crossing Blue with Blue. BB, Bb, bB, bb.
The following combinations are achievable:
Blue X Blue = 50% Blue, 25% Black, 25% Splash
Blue X Black = 50% Blue, 50% Black
Blue X Splash = 50% Blue, 50% Splash
Black X Black = 100% Black
Splash X Splash = 100% Splash
Splash X Black = 100% Blue"
I know it may be a tad more confusing about the letter usage, but depending on which article you read depends on the use of "b" or "bl". On BYC, most always you will see "bl".
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Lavender is a "project" color in Orpingtons, nothing more. It's not a true Orp, some breeders are getting close.
Lavender is a "project" color in Orpingtons, nothing more. It's not a true Orp, some breeders are getting close.
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