Can you retrain a chicken killing dog?

[rooster0209]

Run a hotwire fence on your side of the fence and around the coop. It will just take once.

Hot wire fences have cured many dogs of lots of bad habits. Other than the time to put it up, they are relatively inexpensive

 

[Guitartists]

SSS

 

[Beekissed]

My sister uses a hot wire at the bottom of her dog fence and they defer the digging! These folks sound like they don't care about this dog at all...this may sound a little extreme, but a bar of OneBite over the fence will work wonders. You won't be able to keep chickens as long as they don't care if he gets out. If they DO care, they can have an above ground electric system that contains the dog away from the fence line.

 

[Xival Knievel]

I am a certified canine training and behavior specialist and specialize in dogs with high prey drive. I am also a new chicken fancier and love my chickies as pets. First I just have to point out that this is a PUPPY, not an adult dog. A nine month old puppy requires a lot of attention, training, exercise, and mental stimulation that this poor guy probably isn't receiving nearly enough of. From what I've read here I'm guessing that the owner lets him outside onto his acreage in the morning with the other dog, goes to work and assumes that the dog gets plenty of "exercise" just running around playing with his canine friend. That is the worst possible way to raise your puppy especially if you would like him to grow into a good citizen. Most dogs spend the majority of the day waiting at your door for you to come home, and the rest of the day teaching themselves bad habits due to their need to satisfy their natural drives, energy, and instincts. I equate people who think that a puppy who chases small animals is a naturally "bad dog" to people who think that a roo who crows is a bad chicken. I've read a lot of posts on this forum about chicken killing dogs and finally need to respond. I feel horrible for these dogs and want to kick their owners. I agree that the dogs should be contained on the owner's property or on leash and that it shouldn't be the responsibility of chicken owning neighbors to take care of the dog. It is NOT fair that you have to worry about the welfare of your pets. But it also annoys me that there seem to be a lot of people who in their minds blame the dog- or in this case, puppy.

Anyway, regardless of what others say there is hope for a puppy like this. But the fault as usual goes to the owner and not the animal. Unfortunately, it will require an owner who is fully willing to put as much time, effort, and money into the puppy as necessary to remedy the problem. It take LOTS of time and consistency. While the puppy is so young, it should never be left unsupervised because that is just the way to let it develop serious behavior problems and those problems will turn into habits far too quickly. I do think that rehoming the puppy to a family who has more time for him and is able to keep him contained and under control is a good option if the current owner is not willing to fix it himself. Most people like that aren't. Next post will address how to fix this if he is willing.

 

[Xival Knievel]

Best solution- the puppy's owner should take him out ON LEASH to relieve (or at the very least DIRECTLY supervised 100% of the time in a securely fenced area). When the owner isn't home the dog should be kept indoors, and at this age probably still in a crate to keep him safe and from learning bad indoor habits.The owner definitely needs to work on some obedience to give this puppy a purpose (It is bred to do a job! You can't expect it to just lounge all day! If a dog isn't given a job he will make one for himself, and it may be chicken killing- and labs, if you don't already know, are bred to retrieve birds for their handler- so technically he is being a good boy!). He needs to spend at LEAST 2 hours a day training, walking, playing with, or otherwise exercising and stimulating the puppy. He also needs to give the dog a PROPER outlet for his natural prey drive. That can be playing with a rag or a ball, but it should be clear that the toy presented is okay to play with and that any object or creature not offered by his handler is not acceptable to use those behaviors on. It is not easy to do all of this, but if a handler is consistent the daily routine and acceptable energy outlets will become habit by the time he has an adult dog. When all of his drives and needs are fufilled there should be no reason for him to go looking for trouble-and with him being contained in his hosuehold and on the owners property, it will be impossible for him to find it at your house. The time while a canine is a puppy is so imperitive to instill good habits by not allowing bad behavior and by rewarding good.

Honestly, that should be the end of my post because if those things are done, then that is the end of your problem. So simple! The puppy shouldn't have any opportunity to get himself into such bad situations and should be a happy, well rounded dog. But I will add this. Dogs fall back on "first order learning" meaning that when they first learn that something works for them and earns them any kind of reward or satisfaction, that is the first thing that they will try when looking to gain similar satisfaction in the future. First order learning can be overridden and scientific studies show that for them to "fall back" on a newer behavior and "get over" the original behavior, the new behavior must be reinforced while the old behavior is not allowed to be performed at all- for twice the amount of time that the dog spent doing and learning the old/first behavior. What this means is that if the puppy has spent 6 months learning to chase and kill your chickens in order to get out his energy, have fun, and channel his prey drive, it will take approximately one year of not allowing the puppy to do that anymore while giving him a different and proper way to exercise his energy and prey drive- before he will essentially "forget" about the first behavior and his instinct will be to try the newly instilled behavior (playing with his owner). Like I said in my first post, running free in the yard and playing with a doggy buddy just doesn't cut it.

It is also possible and shouldn't be too hard, honestly, to teach the puppy by having him ON LEASH to be around chickens and ignore them. But again, it will take twice the amount of time doing this for him to get over thinking of them as prey objects. It should be done by his owner because most puppies strongly want to please their pack leader, and labs especially want to learn how to work for their owner and make him happy. If I were going to try to do that, I would personally use a combination of corrections and rewards. The correction should be whatever level is necessary to get the reaction I am wanting (look away from the chickens and at me- probably would require a pinch collar) but never a stronger correction than needed and never with anger. Good dog training is NOT emotional. Also LOTS of praise, food, and playing as rewards from myself the MOMENT that he looks away from the chickens and gives me his attention. It takes a lot of repetition and consistency as I said, but I assure you that the poor pup could grow into a good dog if he were given a chance and proper direction from his pack leader.

If a person can't put in the effort and be responsible with their pet, they simply shouldn't have one. What's the point of a dog anyway if you don't have the time to spend with him?
Wow, I could just go on all day but I will stop there. Sorry for my LOOOONG post and I do wish you luck with your situation and pray that you don't lose any more of your precious flock.

 

[ginbart]

All the information you gave on training is excellent BUT, if the owner is not willing to take the time to do this and lets the dog run wild then all the information you gave is for nothing.

He needs to read this and I don’t think he’s going to unless LuannKeller prints it out and gives it to him.

As you can see this dog has done this more then once. He will keep doing it until something is done.

 

[Bluedog420]

i would and will and have shot dog's that bother my chicken's. he will not stop. i know it is cruel but think what the chicken's are going through. he should git rid of the dog OR ELSE . That is all i have to say about that...Bluedog420

 

[ninjapoodles]

I'm a little surprised at all the talk of killing a puppy, instead of working with the owner, but that's neither here nor there. I just want to share something that's working for us, and it's already been mentioned once in this thread: hot-wire.

Electric fence is cheap and effective. Why not try it? I would agree with the "it's not your problem, your fence works for you" argument if your only option was spending a ton of money to protect YOUR birds from HIS dog. A well-maintained hot-wire can save lives.

Where we live, there is, sadly, NO leash-law. And everyone knows it. We are the only people here who keep our dogs contained on our own property. So we have to protect our animals from other peoples' animals. And from our own, since WE have six dogs, all of whom happen to love chicken, as well as chasing things. They're dogs, it's what they do. They wouldn't do it with us watching, but we can't risk it any other time, either. We also have one VERY determined fox that we've been trying to catch for a while, now, so far with no luck. We know from our gamecams that the fox is still coming to the coop every night, but because of the electric wire, he can't get in.

Our chicken yard has wires running all the way around it, at 6, 12, and 18" high, another one at 3 feet high, and another one along the top of the enclosure.

You can get a small charger--it wouldn't have to cover miles and miles of fence, after all--and scads of wire for a song...the most expensive thing would be the insulators, but you can buy those in bags of 30. Put up hot-wire along the ground all along your side of the fence, and if your neighbor's amenable to it, also on HIS side. It took every one of my dogs exactly ONE time to hit the hot-wire around the chicken yard to be so scared of it that they won't go within 10 feet of it. It made a big enough impact on our biggest dog that she won't even come when we call now, if we are standing near that fence!

You'd have to maintain the fenceline, but IMO it would be worth a try--certainly no more expensive than a shock collar, and a whole lot more reliable at delivering a deterrant. And you might just be protecting your birds from predators you haven't met yet, in the process.

Belinda

 

[augiedranch]

my dogs were all puppies around chickens, and never have killed one.. i dont know ,, if it was me i would make the owner of the 9 month old dog pay and put up an electric fence.


also, in the above posts,, what on earth is one bite? i sure hope its not what i think it is....

 

[The Chicken Lady]

You can retrain the dog with a shotgun.

This shouldn't have happened once, let alone TWICE. Your neighbor is being an irresponsible pet owner and it needs to be reported.

Pets should not be allowed to wander off their owners' property. Your city probably has laws about that. It might help to do a little research.