Caroline, Sweet Caroline (Update, Post 21, Feb 27)

[speckledhen]

Thank you. She will be missed and she should have lived longer, certainly, at least in my mind. She was a healthy, robust hen until she passed her fourth year mark and then she slowed noticeably after the last big molt. I think she developed some sort of reproductive cancer, not necessarily EYP, though that could have been the case at one point. She only bloated up once or twice, then it went away and never came back and she began to lose weight and become more and more lethargic. I just would rather find one gone suddenly than watch her just wither away before my eyes, knowing what the outcome will be.

I do see this less and less, the more of the hatchery blood that leaves my flocks.

 

[TwoCrows]

Why is it that hatchery stock is more prone to internal laying and reproductive cancers? My entire flock started out as hatchery birds, and although I have not lost any yet, I do worry about this.

 

[speckledhen]

Why is it that hatchery stock is more prone to internal laying and reproductive cancers? My entire flock started out as hatchery birds, and although I have not lost any yet, I do worry about this.

I honestly don't know except that they just don't pay attention to good genetics and longevity. Why would they, really? It would cut into their business. And you could have better luck with some hatcheries over others, certainly.

When I was in the thick of losing one after the other of my originals to the same internal laying nightmare, the PhD in poultry science that I consulted finally said I should think about getting my stock from other sources from that point on. And I did and it's been much better with the breeder birds. I mean, when you lose 15 hens, almost every one from the same hatchery, to the same type malfunctions, you just learn not to keep buying hatchery stock, especially from that hatchery. Remember that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? 'Nuff said, right?

After my experiences, I avoid most hatchery stock. I had better luck with my Brahmas from that hatchery, but they are not the common egg breeds like the Sex links, Rocks, Wyandottes and Orps that you usually see in the feed stores in Spring so perhaps their genetics are not quite as sucky. Miranda lived to be 5 1/2, laying until 4 weeks prior to her death from cancer. Caroline is still with me at 7 years, though she has developed pendulous crop now.

ETA: I do not want to imply that a breeder quality hen can't have egg issues or cancers. It's just that good breeder lines don't tend to those as much as hatchery stock does, for whatever reason, in my own personal experience.

 

[TwoCrows]

Speckledhen, thank you for this information! I also keep bobwhite quail, which I have been breeding for about 10 years and I learned similar things that the farther away you got from the original stock, if you breed them correctly, the lines can improve in over all health and any other traits you might be breeding into or out of them.

And I tried to do my homework when I got into chickens 3 years ago and remember reading a lot about this subject of reproductive cancers and internal laying in hatchery stock. I shied away from many breeds as it seems some are more prone to these issues. At that time, hatchery stock was really my only choices and Privett hatchery is not too far from me anyways. I keep Black Australorps, having gotten them from Privett hatchery and so far at 3 years old, they aren't showing any signs of laying issues what so ever. A few of them don't lay like crazy and part of me likes this idea as maybe the ones that have the tendency to lay everyday may develop issues in the future?? I don't know.

Well, thank you for chatting about this subject within your thread here! The learning never stops for me and when ever someone knows something, I find it difficult not to pick their brain.

 

[1muttsfan]

Seems like at the end of a hard winter the old timers with marginal health issues really suffer. You get them through the worst of the winter and think you will be OK, but they just do not seem to be able to recover their health even with spring coming on.

 

[speckledhen]

Seems like at the end of a hard winter the old timers with marginal health issues really suffer. You get them through the worst of the winter and think you will be OK, but they just do not seem to be able to recover their health even with spring coming on.

That could be part of it, certainly, with this extra hard winter we had. I expected more to pass away before Spring and I didn't expect the two that did to go first. In fact, I didn't expect those to go at all, really. Their issues came on them fairly suddenly compared to others we've lost.

I would say that Fern never really taking a break may have led to her early demise. Even when she molted, she took a two week break and was right back at it, but then again, I've had hens who took breaks to raise chicks cease laying and develop internal issues as well. Hard to really be black and white about any of it, though I still say that hatchery stock, overall, is not as hardy as a good breeder line.

 

[speckledhen]

Speckledhen, thank you for this information! I also keep bobwhite quail, which I have been breeding for about 10 years and I learned similar things that the farther away you got from the original stock, if you breed them correctly, the lines can improve in over all health and any other traits you might be breeding into or out of them.

And I tried to do my homework when I got into chickens 3 years ago and remember reading a lot about this subject of reproductive cancers and internal laying in hatchery stock. I shied away from many breeds as it seems some are more prone to these issues. At that time, hatchery stock was really my only choices and Privett hatchery is not too far from me anyways. I keep Black Australorps, having gotten them from Privett hatchery and so far at 3 years old, they aren't showing any signs of laying issues what so ever. A few of them don't lay like crazy and part of me likes this idea as maybe the ones that have the tendency to lay everyday may develop issues in the future?? I don't know.

Well, thank you for chatting about this subject within your thread here! The learning never stops for me and when ever someone knows something, I find it difficult not to pick their brain.

I just happen to have lots of sad experience in this one area, unfortunately. And we've opened up so many poor hens to examine their internal organs after they've passed or we've euthanized them, enough that we don't always do that anymore, knowing what we most likely will find.