!!!Cat and Dog Advice Needed!!! LONG POST!!!

[The Wolf Queen]

I wouldnt call this urgent but its important so here it goes. Monday I got 2 kittens from a friend and their mom is feral so they really arent used to people (already improving 95%) non the less used to dogs. So actually im fine with the cats hissing and scratching the dogs, not yet, but eventually scratching the dogs as a warning. Well any ways, I have 5 dogs. 3 smalls and 2 bigs (55-60 pounds) and one of the bigger ones has killed my chickens before and my other big dog has a chased a cat,im pretty sure , meaning to hurt really badly or kill. With both dogs i do NOT tolerate it and they get strickly disciplined. Well anyways I'm EXTREMELY worried about my chicken killer Yoshi becuz everytime she looks at the kitties she starts to shake and either backs away or sniffs them alot. Im worried that since that cats are gonna be inddor and out door that she WILL kill them (another toy to her). Im pretty sure the shaking is her struggling to not let herself attack the girls becuz she does this with my chickens through the fence except then its worse. Im not sure but I think she is afraid (backs away when a kitten hisses at her) and just becuz im watching which means she cant hurt them. Also my Lab X and my favorite dog of all time Chance actually almost protects them but im afraid he is to rough. Like I said, he did almost catch a wild cat, but with these if Yoshi gets too close when Im a little far away he barks and bites her, ther problem is they (said kittens) do not like dogs and he will lick them and has actually tried to pick them up out of my arms (I know he doesnt mean harm becuz when he was a pup I had a rat that I would let play in the yard and he would at least attempt to pick him up and move the rat to his favorite tree) but now Chance is bigger and has a larger mouth and teeth. Not to mention he also tries to discipline them. If they try to bat at his nose, as a warning, he mouths them (Does it to my grouchy broodies to)!!! So obviously im worried even when they grow he will hurt them. Then I have a Chiweenie who tries to adopt every small animal in sighr BUT if they hiss and she tries to jump them (she kills squirrels) so I know she is trying to mother them and im afraid she will either accidently or purposefully bite them

. The other two dogs are afraid of them so no worries there but I want all of them to get along. Can anyone please recomend away to ESPECIALLY work on YOSHI. She is the one most likely to pull something when im not looking. Im not as worried abouth other 2 becuz if they pull something they get spanked and they understand that the girls are a no biting and jumping zone but with Yoshi she doesnt always get them message. Then right when I say that it changes. I know that infront of me she will go no where near the chickens or goat or if she duz she looks terrified (She no likey a water bottle and or getting spanked) but since the cats are going to sleep and hang in the house and probably our yard instead of field (where the goat and my flock is) the problem is WAY BIGGER. Am i making sence? So yeah just needed that off my chest and seeking advice on Yoshi especially so thanks for reading and post a reply or PM if you have any peace making advice. Im SUPER REALLY REALLY worried

ETA: I dont care if the cats like the dogs I just want them SAFE...

 

[The Wolf Queen]

Anyone???

 

[babylady4]

Have you ever watched the Dog Wisperer? He has worked his magic concerning dogs and other small prey animals with great success. If you are the dominant leader of your 'pack' you teach the dog that the kitties (and chickens) are yours. Make them submit (lay on back), and bring in the kitties. Dog should IGNORE the kitties COMPLETELY. If the dog indicates it is interested in the kitties, you give it the firm no and neck grab so they know you mean business!

I would watch how Cesar does this on his show though, there is more information there you need to see. Actually watching him go through his procedure is better than reading about it.


Good Luck!

 

[Brindlebtch]

You can teach them a really strong LEAVE IT command with a shaker can or electric collar. I guess you would have to use a shaker can because of the multiple dogs. With puppies you can use a plastic fly swatter. Trick is they can't have unsupervised interaction until the leave it command is in place and they know the kittens are off limits and part of YOUR pack.

Trick is you have to be pack leader and the corrections will have to be quick and strong. You really have to horrify them. You have to be absolute leader of the pack. This is going to sound strange, but if one dog goes after the kitties EVERYBODY present gets in trouble.

This is how I can manage a tiff between my dogs. If somebody snarks at somebody else you say leave it like you mean it, I mean really mean it, and the participants should go uh-oh and stop and/or scatter and all non-participants should just scatter because they don't want to get in trouble, too. It is very effective in multiple animal/species households but you have to be a real hard-a** while training it. Also because they scatter pack behavior can't kick in.

Most people hesitate to do this with their animals and just kind of nag them to little effect. Well, the actual effect is you teach the animal to ignore you.

It sounds like Cesar's method would work for one dog at a time but would be hard to enforce on multiples. By the time you tackled everybody, wrestled them over and grabbed their throats somebody else may have grabbed the kitten if they are starting to pack. If your dogs don't pack then no problem. Gotta be quick and willing to go physically one on one with the dog which can also be an issue. I prefer a shaker can and a good yell.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[rhondapiper]

Positive reinforcement for good behavior around the cats will go a lot further in training the dogs by using negative reinforcement. I've trained a dog who is truly a small animals killer to be trustworthy around cats by initially leashing her and praising her when she did not act predatory toward the cats, keeping their negative interactions to a minimum and rewarding her with treats and praise (all the while not allowing her to be offleash and able to hurt them).

Frankly I think negatively training a dog all the time with spanking and other physical punishment just gives you an unbalanced and untrustworthy dog. Adding positive methods reinforces good behavior. If you're willing to consider positive methods, this is a good start on cats and dog intros: http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/catintro.pdf

And this is good on general positive training:
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/positive-reinforce.pdf

And for more great training guides check out the parent site:
http://www.ddfl.org/tips.htm

 

[cafarmgirl]

No matter what training method you choose it would be wise to never leave them alone together. Especially if they have killed before. I own a rescue dog who is a cat killer who is kept strictly separated from the cats. When she is in my presence and/or leashed she ignores the cats but let her encounter a cat when no one is around and it's quite another story.

That said, I would be concerned if you are hoping to have these cats eventually share the yard with Yoshi when you are not around.

 

[Brindlebtch]

unbalanced and untrustworthy. wow.

Your call Wolf Queen.

I do agree with cafarmgirl:

"That said, I would be concerned if you are hoping to have these cats eventually share the yard with Yoshi when you are not around."

 

[corancher]

This is a really interesting post. I agree that the dogs need to see you as pack leader. If you watch how the dogs actually interact with each other to determine their place in the pack. It is common for them to snap at or roll another member of the pack if they step out of line and then two minutes later be licking their face. I think a little of both swift stepping in if they get out of line and lots of praise and love for all.

Our dogs at this point just need a loud "ATT" to know they are out of line. Don't expect this all to happen overnight. Good luck. It is possible to have all of them out together but expect to work at it.

 

[rhondapiper]

removed because getting annoyed with people on the internet is stupid.

 

[Love my Critters!]

I also agree that you have to be the pack leader. You should receive respect from everyone, but not fear. I think if you instill fear that it makes everyone unstable and one day someone (dogs) will challange you for your position. That may end in casualties of other animals.
I had a rescue boxer that we owned for 12 years. She was about 6-8 months old when we got her. She HATED cats. Wanted to chase and KILL them! Well my husband and I had 2 cats that lived indoors. We definately worked long and hard with her and did not let her be alone with our cats until we were completly comfortable with the fact that she knew how to treat them. We would take her on walks through neighborhoods that we knew would have cats outside. We used the positive reinforcement method when she ignored them and did not lunge on the leash. If she did get "excited" she would be repremanded by us firmly telling her to sit and we would wait until she calmed down, then try again. After practicing that for a while we then went inside with the cats and the dog on a leash (with you I would leash the dogs with the issue) and use the same techniques, even while watching TV. We eventually were able to remove the leash. It took a month or so of working with her and reminding her that the cats were mine and she had to coexist, but she soon got the hint. She was best friends with the cats and was very trustworthy around other cats for the rest of her life. It just takes consistancy.
Now, with your dog that "shakes" you need to let that dog know that has to stop. Take the cat(s) and have someone hold the leash of that dog and keep correcting that behavior until it stops, then reward.

Sorry for the super long post