Cedar. Do we have a problem?

[DarkWolf]

Quote:
Actually... Dimensional lumber does not contain formaldehyde. If you're talking about pressure treated lumber, it does contain preservatives, but not formaldehyde.

The only thing that commonly contains formaldehyde in construction materials is fiberglass bat insulation.

Modern pressure treated woods contain Copper Azole (CA-B) or Copper Oxide, Quaternary Ammonium (ACQ/-D) RATHER than Chromated Copper Arsenate; with the latter being a copper/arsenic based preservative.

It's possible that you can have reactions to copper, or something else, but regardless there's no formaldehyde in 2x4's.

 

[lisahaschickens]

DarkWolf - thanks for all the great lumber info... I love to learn about things. I went with all cedar on my chicken run and my veggie garden boxes because I like to leave chemicals out of my life whenever possible in general. Also, organic standards for chickens say that they cannot come into contact with pressure-treated in their daily lives. It was just easier for me to stick with cedar anyway, even if it's not necessary. It's good to know that PT now contains copper instead of arsenic, though.

 

[DarkWolf]

lisahaschickens, my pleasure.. Regardless of how much safer modern treated lumber is vs. having years of arsenic leach into the soil your plants grow in, it's still a toxin.. Just not as bad of one as it used to be.

Cedar by far is the best choice, regardless of if it's to be used in raised beds or around plants/animals. It will outlast pressure treated woods, but the cost can be prohibitive for many.

ACQ Info: http://www.epa.gov/oppad001/reregistration/cca/acq.htm
CA-B Info: http://www.epa.gov/oppad001/reregistration/cca/copperazole.htm

But anyway... Cedar FTW, for sure. It's by far the best to go with.. Well.. Unless you have access to redwood.

 

[valentinebaby]

Quote:
Actually... Dimensional lumber does not contain formaldehyde. If you're talking about pressure treated lumber, it does contain preservatives, but not formaldehyde.

The only thing that commonly contains formaldehyde in construction materials is fiberglass bat insulation.

Modern pressure treated woods contain Copper Azole (CA-B) rather than Chromated Copper Arsenate; with the latter being a copper/arsenic based preservative.

It's possible that you can have reactions to copper, or something else, but regardless there's no formaldehyde in 2x4's.

I have severe itching everywhere and hives for days after pulling and/or cutting new pine wood (i've got to remember the stupid mask while cutting!, but it also happens when i just hold it). When I finally realized it happened only when working with new wood, I searched on the internet and found numerous sites referring to the formaldehyde coating, so I'm gonna go with that. If I let the wood "breathe" outside for about a week, then I have no problem. I don't use treated wood, but after reading your earlier post, I may use it as support poles (stained) in my run. Didn't know they weren't using arsenic anymore - thanks!

Gail

 

[azelgin]

Quote:
I'd be interested in reading some of these articles. Could you post the links?

 

[DarkWolf]

valentinebaby, huh.. I'm at a loss.. To my understanding there is no formaldehyde in standard lumber. I'd love to see the UPC ID tags with the data on it to see just what's in it. Did you say that this was treated lumber you were using, or standard?

I DID find this about formaldehyde, but that was in pressed wood products like plywoods, OSB and MDF as formaldehyde is a part of the glue used to make these products.
http://www.epa.gov/EPA-TOX/2008/December/Day-03/t28585.htm

Now, there are some people (few) who are allergic to pine sap. It's possible that may have been the issue. Really hard to say.

 

[azelgin]

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I've always known that urea formaldehyde based glues were used in pressed wood products and laminates, but never heard of them in dimensional lumber. Wood off the saw carrage, going onto the green chain, used to go through a dip of some kind before grading, but pretty sure there was no formaldehyde in there. Some sort of bug killer, as I recall (It's been 30 years). Then it was off to the dry kiln, for dry, or off to the planer, for green.

 

[DarkWolf]

Quote:
I've always known that urea formaldehyde based glues were used in pressed wood products and laminates, but never heard of them in dimensional lumber.

Yeah, I know... I wonder if by chance it was those 2x4's that are scabbed together with finger joints instead of full length lumber. Now, that I could see having that kind of glue used in the fingers.

Quote:
Alot has changed in 30 years..

Not real sure what the post processing is before the kiln, but after it's in the kiln nothing else is done to standard lumber.

 

[2Younguns]

Okay, so I've learned a lot by reading these posts. I never knew you couldn't use cedar shavings in chicken coops. I mean, pine is cheaper and that's what I was planning to use, but there really is a problem with cedar?

 

[azelgin]

Quote:
Well. . . . . That's a big ol' can of worms to open up. Generally, folks stay away from cedar, including myself. Some use it with no problem, including my nephews in Texas, that have a log furniture factory. I really think it's going to depend on how much ventilation you have in your coop. Pine is supposed to be toxic, too, if you read certain reserce papers. I use oak, 'cause it's free for me.