Champagne Blonde Query

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Hi Everyone

I'm doing some project breeding and I'm at a stage where results might be able to tell me which gold dilute gene I have in my breeding stock.
Here's a little context for my question..

I recently paired up a Citroen Sebright Rooster with a couple of my project hens. I'm culling all silver chicks as these will always be cockerels, leaving me with gold chicks that could be either hens or cockerels. ( I have several silver hens and one gold hen in the project pen )

It is my experience, with my project birds, that they take time to grow into their lacing patterns. To start with they look very dark and the lacing color develops over time.
I have noticed with some of my younglings coming on (ranging 2 - 5 weeks in age) that their developing colour looks very light - like the Citroen colour.

I was not expecting this. If the dilute gene present in the Citroens is the Inhibitor of Gold - I would expect this to be recessive and this round of babies would be split to IG but not visually expressing.

So I'm wondering if I have a different dilute gene? Perhaps Champagne Blonde - which I believe is dominant?

Does anyone else have any previous experience or knowledge with this particular diluting gene? I'll work on getting some pictures shortly of the chicks..

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

It's difficult in my office (at present) to get a picture that accurately shows the color. The light coming through the door makes the feathers look lighter than they are.

The Eldest Chick - The wing primaries and secondaries look light in this pic but all the feathers are coloring in with the diluted gold. You can see it better on the coverlets and breast.

 

[Amer]

I don’t know very much about this. Maybe you do have Champagne blond. I did hear once that a lot of silver birds have gold diluters in their genes as well, so maybe that is in your birds?
I’ll be learning with you if @nicalandia responds.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Autosomal Red can create this effect too. My Silkies carry Autosomal Red, & the results can look lemony, or creamy red. Sometimes lemony with red patches.

I see this with my Project Giant Silkie offspring, & F1 father.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I'll try to get a picture of Creamy Red, caused by Autosomal Red, later. It looks alot what you pictured there.

Here's the lemony color, & red patches though.

 

[MysteryChicken]

He has the Silver Gene also.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Autosomal Red can create this effect too. My Silkies carry Autosomal Red, & the results can look lemony, or creamy red. Sometimes lemony with red patches.

I see this with my Project Giant Silkie offspring, & F1 father.

My understanding of Autosomal Red is limited but I didn't think it was a diluter of red. In fact isn't it the opposite?

My understanding is that Autosomal Red is a form of gold (or modifier of gold?) that resists the dilution effect of silver - hence why we see it so often on silver birds that have been derived from crosses with gold birds.

With this in mind -
It's certainly possible for my silver cockerel chicks to show some effects of Autosomal Red.
But I would not expect the gold chicks to be diluted as a result of Autosomal Red.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Have been thinking on this topic overnight - and IF the dilute gene at play here is a dominant one - then this would explain something a breeder once told me. I'll explain:

I purchased my first Citroen sebright hen from a breeder of good credentials - so I'm taking him at his word that the following is true.

He said he bred one Silver rooster to one Gold hen - and the resulting cockerel chicks were 'split to silver' or S / s+

He then bred with one of those cockerel sons and achieved the citroen hen chick that I purchased.



So I'm thinking - it's widely discussed that the silver birds have dilute genes to maintain the purity of the silver.
If those dilute genes are in fact dominant, or even partially dominant, (as my current chick outcomes are suggesting) this could credibly explain how he could have conducted the breeding described above and achieve my hen as a result.

 

[Amer]

Have been thinking on this topic overnight - and IF the dilute gene at play here is a dominant one - then this would explain something a breeder once told me. I'll explain:

I purchased my first Citroen sebright hen from a breeder of good credentials - so I'm taking him at his word that the following is true.

He said he bred one Silver rooster to one Gold hen - and the resulting cockerel chicks were 'split to silver' or S / s+

He then bred with one of those cockerel sons and achieved the citroen hen chick that I purchased.

View attachment 2823527

So I'm thinking - it's widely discussed that the silver birds have dilute genes to maintain the purity of the silver.
If those dilute genes are in fact dominant, or even partially dominant, (as my current chick outcomes are suggesting) this could credibly explain how he could have conducted the breeding described above and achieve my hen as a result.

Exactly! Or maybe they’re even “ig” which would work with the rooster’s ig.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Exactly! Or maybe they’re even “ig” which would work with the rooster’s ig.

See that's what I "originally" thought I was working with. But the results I'm seeing don't (at this time) appear to support a recessive diluter in action.

Obviously time will tell as more of the chicks colour up - but with ig I'd expect to see a certain proportion of my chicks that do not receive two copies of the gene and therefore are not diluted.